113 replies to this topic

[Chris B]

I…..don’t know where all their bonus pool money is going…

[Mackus]

I…..don’t know where all their bonus pool money is going…

The concern is that we all suspect where it might be staying.


We do all agree that there is no excuse for not spending it all, right? Aside from a couple hundred K or so, we're not going to be lied to and think that these are the guys Elias wanted and he just did such a great job negotiating with them that they didn't need to spend it all?

If they are near a million or more under their pool, that's a direct indictment of ownership from which there is no excuse other than outright cheapness and greed. It would cement the sons as being as bad as any of us have feared. It would cement their status for anyone who was still on the fence or giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I'll wait for all the signings to be done. But if they stay as far under as it looks like they may...

[BobPhelan]

The concern is that we all suspect where it might be staying.


We do all agree that there is no excuse for not spending it all, right? Aside from a couple hundred K or so, we're not going to be lied to and think that these are the guys Elias wanted and he just did such a great job negotiating with them that they didn't need to spend it all?

If they are near a million or more under their pool, that's a direct indictment of ownership from which there is no excuse other than outright cheapness and greed. It would cement the sons as being as bad as any of us have feared. It would cement their status for anyone who was still on the fence or giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I'll wait for all the signings to be done. But if they stay as far under as it looks like they may...

Agreed.

Hope it’s much ado about nothing.

[Mike in STL]

The concern is that we all suspect where it might be staying.


We do all agree that there is no excuse for not spending it all, right? Aside from a couple hundred K or so, we're not going to be lied to and think that these are the guys Elias wanted and he just did such a great job negotiating with them that they didn't need to spend it all?

If they are near a million or more under their pool, that's a direct indictment of ownership from which there is no excuse other than outright cheapness and greed. It would cement the sons as being as bad as any of us have feared. It would cement their status for anyone who was still on the fence or giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I'll wait for all the signings to be done. But if they stay as far under as it looks like they may...

I’m feeling like if you went under on the 1st round pick, it’s so you can go over on the comp pick, round 2, 3, and/or 4 picks. Aside from it looks like the 3 pick which we don’t know, they didn’t do that. And if you went over slot on a guy, wouldn’t they be more likely to sign faster? Like if they went over on the 3 pick, that guy would have signed already.

Anyway, I don’t think if they go over slot on the 9 and 10 picks to get closer to not looking like cheapskates, that I won’t think of them as cheapskates. They cemented their status asking arb guys to defer their salaries. Coming in $1M under the pool would be embarrassing, and I hope the baseball world would rake them over the coals for it.

If I’m one of the last guys to sign, I would hope they know how much pool money the O’s have and negotiate for it.

[Slidemaster]

I'm embarrassed for them.

How cheap can you be that you take budget draft picks with your first four selections to save a meager million bucks?

What a diagrace.

[dude]

I don’t mean teams shouldn’t use the rules to their advantage or how they see fit. I mean the rules are stupid. I’d rather there be no such thing as overslot/underslot, draft pool budgets, etc. Set a pay scale. MLB says 1:5 is worth $6.18M, that draft pick gets paid $6.18M, or they don’t sign. Keep it simple.

 

Why would it need to be more simple?

 

There's ways to do what you're talking about.  You could have ALL of the draftees in one pool of money and then scale the Pool Payments for each team based on market.  Everyone drafts, everyone signs and you are done.  Take the Games out of it.  

 

I'm ok with the bigger Management approach (they've already taken the agents out of it, that's what I didn't like) because I'd rather have the opportunity to be better than the other teams.

[dude]

7 of the remaining guys are College SRs so they have zero leverage and they'll 'save' more money on one of them.

[glenn__davis]

7 of the remaining guys are College SRs so they have zero leverage and they'll 'save' more money on one of them.

As others have mentioned college seniors have more leverage than usual with last season not counting towards eligibility.

[glenn__davis]

What's the amount under their allocation where we burn the Warehouse down? $600k would be 5% under. mirroring the 5% over you're allowed to go without losing anything besides a little bit more money.

I would've said that anything less than 95% would be terrible. Anything above that and I think you can make an argument that it's due to the unknown nature of negotiations.

[Mackus]

Is there any chance Craig takes $1M to sign? That would nearly cover all the currently projected underage, if we wanna call it that. But is he that level of talent? Late 2nd? I've heard people here talk about him as intriguing but not exactly to that level.

[Mackus]

Anyway, I don’t think if they go over slot on the 9 and 10 picks to get closer to not looking like cheapskates, that I won’t think of them as cheapskates.

The good news in terms of a result we all here can be confident is true signal, is that I'm certain that they will not do what you mentioned here and just throw an extra million bucks at somebody they don't feel is worth it and wouldn't otherwise sign to end up spending closer to their allocation in hopes to avoid pissing off people like us. That's not a thought process this ownership is capable of. So whatever they spend, it's sincere.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The thing is the draft pool is relatively the same each year right. Obviously less money last year because 5 rounds, but in '19 they had the most money in the whole draft and spent all of it right? Why is now different if they do leave a significant amount out there? Are they going to blame it on Covid?

[Mackus]

dude has had a theory for a while that's gaining more and more data points. Related to the death tax if I'm not over-simplifying.

Obvious caveat that signings aren't done and this could all be moot if they spend 97% of their pool.

[NickStevens]

Is there any chance Craig takes $1M to sign? That would nearly cover all the currently projected underage, if we wanna call it that. But is he that level of talent? Late 2nd? I've heard people here talk about him as intriguing but not exactly to that level.

 

Local article talked to him after the draft and Craig said he kept hearing teams were interested in the 7th round at the earliest. Don't think he takes too much to sign. Was playing summer ball here in town but his team canceled their season after a covid outbreak and coaches pulled their players. Was hoping I'd be able to find out a little something but oh well.

[makoman]

Willems was ranked 130 in the HS class by perfect game. This is only one ranking so it shouldn’t be gospel, but it’s all I’ve got. Slot is $187k.

 

PG had Jose Pena, drafted in 6 by the Phillies, at 156. He signed for $222k.

 

PG had TJ White, drafted in 5 by the Nats, at 154. He signed for $400k.

 

PG had AJ Smith-Shawver, drafted in 7 by the Braves, at 151. He signed for $997k.

 

PG had Mitch Bratt, drafted in 5 by the Rangers, at 147. He signed for $850k.

 

PG had Tyler Collins, drafted in 8 by the Braves, at 135. He signed for $447k.

 

PG had Jordan Viars, drafted in 3 by the Phillies, at 126. He signed for $721k.

 

PG had Jordan McCants, drafted in 3 by the Marlins, at 113. He hasn’t signed yet, slot is $678k.

 

PG had Jake Fox, drafted in 3 by the Indians, at 111. He hasn’t signed yet, slot is $610k.

 

PG had Calvin Ziegler, drafted in 2 by the Mets, at 105. He signed for $910k.

 

These are all over the place. It seems like Willems could sign for anywhere from $400k-900k without really looking crazy.

 

ETA Bratt

[Mackus]

Local article talked to him after the draft and Craig said he kept hearing teams were interested in the 7th round at the earliest. Don't think he takes too much to sign. Was playing summer ball here in town but his team canceled their season after a covid outbreak and coaches pulled their players. Was hoping I'd be able to find out a little something but oh well.

 

Thanks.  7th round money would be like $250k max.

[Chris B]

As others have mentioned college seniors have more leverage than usual with last season not counting towards eligibility.

 

Not really though... they go back to school and are still "super-seniors" which likely means they're 22 or 23 (hell, maybe even 24) years old. Age definitely matters to teams.

[makoman]

I think Rhodes may take a decent amount to sign simply because he had an awful year. It would be easy for him to think that he can definitely do better and improve his stock. I think he's also probably the youngest college player in the draft so he won't be unusually old next year. So maybe he wants more than he's really worth, so it just depends how badly you want him. On the plus side, I guess, the 3rd round is protected so you can get a pick next year.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

dude has had a theory for a while that's gaining more and more data points. Related to the death tax if I'm not over-simplifying.

Obvious caveat that signings aren't done and this could all be moot if they spend 97% of their pool.

Death tax?

[Mackus]

Death tax?

 

Estate tax.  At the risk of not explaining dude's theory accurately and not knowing the details of the tax system, I believe that he thinks the Angelos sons are shedding all cost obligations and pinching pennies to a degree we've never seen before so that they can build up enough cash on hand to afford the hefty tax bill that will come due when Pete eventually passes and bequeaths his inheritance along to them.  Possibly also trying to literally drive down the value of the team which would reduce the tax assessment.