304 replies to this topic

[Mike B]

Murray is not ok, no matter what direction he is going.

Murray is averaging 3.5 YPC, with a long run of 8 yards. He averages 2.5 yards after contact. And he's forced all of 1 missed tackle in 3 games.

Williams on the other hand is averaging 6.1 YPC on one less carry than Murray. Averages 3.52 yards after contact. Has 5 forced missed tackles, and has been superior as a pass catcher and a pass protector. (Murray has a PFF rating of 28.1 as a pass blocker, to Williams 85 rating.) Not to mention Williams has 5 runs of 10+ already.


Williams has been so much better in every area. It's frustrating to watch Roman try and force the ball into Murray and Freemans hands.

This brings up an even bigger issue. Teams will stop worrying about the RB at all on read options. The read option has been great with Lamar simply because teams had to worry about Dobbins and Edwards as RB's. It caused headaches at the mesh point for defenders because they had to decide whether to let Dobbins or Edwards get the ball and possibly get a huge gain, or hope your teammates could stop Lamar.

With Murray or Freeman on those plays, as a defender, I'm taking out Lamar 100% of the time. I'll let Murray or Freeman plod for 2 yards or less and fall down on first contact every single time. That's the biggest issue with Roman idiotically trying to use those two consistently.

Freeman has 5 carries.  He is not being used regularly.

 

I would not be surprised to see Bell replace Freeman this week, and be on the 53 man roster.

 

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[Mike B]

I think we are going to see a 3 back rotation all year.

 

Williams, unless Bell turns back the clock, will be the lead back but only get about 200 carries this year.

 

Murray, will be the sledge hammer, who is in for short yardage and also when the Ravens want to utilize the best pass pro guy.

 

Bell- I think he gets a uniform this week.  It will be interesting to see what he can give the team.  I have to admit, I was shocked to see he is only 29.  Maybe there is something left in the tank.

 

Freeman has not been used much.  As guys come back, his roster spot may be in jeopardy.  If Bell does not flash, the same could be said of him.

[Biggsy]

I think we are going to see a 3 back rotation all year.

Williams, unless Bell turns back the clock, will be the lead back but only get about 200 carries this year.

Murray, will be the sledge hammer, who is in for short yardage and also when the Ravens want to utilize the best pass pro guy.

Bell- I think he gets a uniform this week. It will be interesting to see what he can give the team. I have to admit, I was shocked to see he is only 29. Maybe there is something left in the tank.

Freeman has not been used much. As guys come back, his roster spot may be in jeopardy. If Bell does not flash, the same could be said of him.

Murray has been horrid in pass protection, while Williams has graded out at an elite level so far.

I really hope Bell is ready soon so can end the Freeman experience.

[Mike in STL]

Updated 9/30

 

 

So far this week, a much smaller injury report. The three COVID close contacts (B-Will, J-Mad, Houston) completed their five days away and are back with the team. Ferguson is still on the list. Assuming a 10-day quarantine, which the Ravens are being very tight lipped about these matters, his quarantine either ends on Sunday, or Monday, he's out Sunday, IMO. 

 

Bateman and Boykin activated from IR, they have 21-days before they need to be added to the 53-man roster. I believe that date would be October 20th. Currently 50 players on the active roster. Ferguson would make 51. Bateman and Boykin could be added without having to waive anyone. 

 

Lamar listed on the injury report with a back. Not sure if it's a clever joke since he carries the weight of the entire team there. Nothing to worry about though. 

 

Stanley looks like "weeks". Wolfe "has no timetable". Only new addition to the report is Villanueva. Hope that is nothing to worry about. Andre Smith is likely gameday promoted, but would join Mekari as the only other tackle if AV isn't good to go.

 

Practice squad, Ravens cut Devin Gray, promoted Josh Bynes to the active roster. Signed Nate McCrary and Jordan Stephens. 

Four protected players this week are Andre Smith, Chris Smith, Kahlil McKenzie and Kevon Seymour. First time McSorley hasn't been protected. I guess the Ravens value the other positions over a QB who knows the system to back up Huntley if major injury occurs to LJ. Bell not protected either. As injuries pile up around the league, seems like a bold strategy unless a) you're happy with Murray and Freeman and confident McCrary won't be sought after. Or b) Bell just isn't showing you the goods in practice to be given a game day spot. 

[hallas]

Murray has been horrid in pass protection, while Williams has graded out at an elite level so far.

I really hope Bell is ready soon so can end the Freeman experience.

 

For what it's worth, and that's not much, PFF has Murray with a slightly higher overall grade than Williams or Freeman, owing mostly to a much higher rushing grade.  I'm really not sure why.  I think PFF is grading Williams' fumbles harshly against him.  To me he looks like he clearly has more juice in his legs, but he needs to hold onto the football.

[Biggsy]

For what it's worth, and that's not much, PFF has Murray with a slightly higher overall grade than Williams or Freeman, owing mostly to a much higher rushing grade. I'm really not sure why. I think PFF is grading Williams' fumbles harshly against him. To me he looks like he clearly has more juice in his legs, but he needs to hold onto the football.

I did see that. PFF grades get skewed in rushing based on small sample sizes. They grade each play on a scale from -2 to +2. So for example, if Williams has a 2 yard run on 1st down and goes down on first contact, he's given a -1 or -2 score. If Murray, the short yardage guy, does the same thing on 3rd and 1, the run is seen as a +1 or +2 play because it picked up a first down on a 3rd down play.

So in small sample sizes, scores can be skewed based on situation. I think anyone watching can see that Williams is by far the better runner of the two. Every single stat and advanced stat prove that.

[Mackus]

I did see that. PFF grades get skewed in rushing based on small sample sizes. They grade each play on a scale from -2 to +2. So for example, if Williams has a 2 yard run on 1st down and goes down on first contact, he's given a -1 or -2 score. If Murray, the short yardage guy, does the same thing on 3rd and 1, the run is seen as a +1 or +2 play because it picked up a first down on a 3rd down play.

 

Interesting seeing the mechanics, thanks.  Do they only grade in full numbers?  The scale of the scale seems odd to me, seems like really great plays (broken tackles for TDs) or really bad plays (fumbles) would have a higher magnitude of importance.  Fumbles especially, they are dramatically worse than just a normal bad run.

[makoman]

Interesting seeing the mechanics, thanks.  Do they only grade in full numbers?  The scale of the scale seems odd to me, seems like really great plays (broken tackles for TDs) or really bad plays (fumbles) would have a higher magnitude of importance.  Fumbles especially, they are dramatically worse than just a normal bad run.

Yeah, they get a lot of critiques for stuff like that. If you're simply on the other side of the field for 3 plays you get 0,0,0. If instead you miss two tackles then make a great play for a pick 6 you might get -1,-1,+2, the same score. Are those guys the same? Plus it is especially hard to grade accurately when you don't know the plays. We may think a CB blew a coverage but it was really a safety, or a guard missed his assignment making the center look bad, or a throw looks terrible because the WR messed up the route, etc. I'm sure they are better than the average fan in figuring out that stuff but still...

 

I think they are useful but sometimes people take them as gospel and they probably shouldn't. For example if someone consistently gets good or bad grades that is probably meaningful, but I don't know if you can necessarily distinguish between guys with an 84 vs an 79 or something. Probably kind of like baseball defensive metrics used to be.

 

*This opinion is old, I don't know if they have changed or improved lately.

[Mike B]

For what it's worth, and that's not much, PFF has Murray with a slightly higher overall grade than Williams or Freeman, owing mostly to a much higher rushing grade.  I'm really not sure why.  I think PFF is grading Williams' fumbles harshly against him.  To me he looks like he clearly has more juice in his legs, but he needs to hold onto the football.

If he does not hold on to the football, he can not play for Harbs.  Harbs seemingly forgives a lot, but not turning the ball over.

 

I believe we see Bell this week.   I think he takes Freeman's spot.

 

JMO, but I think all the criticism of all 3 running backs is over the top.   

 

Williams is a UDFA, who is getting a large share of the action. He has been pretty good.

 

Freeman and Murray were added right before game 1 and have had to get used to a different attack style.

 

The running game was good in weeks one and two and struggled a little against the Lions.

 

I think the pieces are here to be very productive, and I think we will be very productive, but it is going to take time.

 

I think we need to see what Bell has to offer.  He could be the wild card.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Still #1 in the NFL in rushing by about 11 yards (Cleveland) and by 26 yards over #3 Tennessee with the best RB of the era.

Chill, chill.

The linebackers on the other hand, and defense in general? Have at it. I'm tired of hearing the announcers praise Queen during the broadcasts.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Still #1 in the NFL in rushing by about 11 yards (Cleveland) and by 26 yards over #3 Tennessee with the best RB of the era.

Chill, chill.

The linebackers on the other hand, and defense in general? Have at it. I'm tired of hearing the announcers praise Queen during the broadcasts.

Its just because hes the last guy who touches the opposing defender before he goes down. Even if it is 15 yards downfield. That and he has an occasional splash play. Hes bad at his job. Its a lost cause IMO. Hes too small and isnt fundamental to boot. Easily the worst pick of the EDC era.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Its just because hes the last guy who touches the opposing defender before he goes down. Even if it is 15 yards downfield. That and he has an occasional splash play. Hes bad at his job. Its a lost cause IMO. Hes too small and isnt fundamental to boot. Easily the worst pick of the EDC era.

What if he can put it together in year 3 or 4. Bowser was sort of a late bloomer, sometimes they are on defense. If it is an offensive player, I generally agree. They're either impactful or they're not, we aren't good at developing that. Also, Bowser not off to a great start himself.

[Mackus]

The linebackers on the other hand, and defense in general? Have at it. I'm tired of hearing the announcers praise Queen during the broadcasts.

 

He's so FAST!

[TwentyThirtyFive]

What if he can put it together in year 3 or 4. Bowser was sort of a late bloomer, sometimes they are on defense. If it is an offensive player, I generally agree. They're either impactful or they're not, we aren't good at developing that. Also, Bowser not off to a great start himself.

Never say never but I dont see it. Hes small, lacks great instinct and fundamentals. I think Mosley will be back.

[jamesdean]

Never say never but I dont see it. Hes small, lacks great instinct and fundamentals. I think Mosley will be back.

His biggest weakness is the inability to be physical with tackling.  I don't know how you rectify that problem.  He's a very good athlete, is fast and eventually, will learn to be in the right place at the right time but he's just an atrocious tackler. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

His biggest weakness is the inability to be physical with tackling. I don't know how you rectify that problem. He's a very good athlete, is fast and eventually, will learn to be in the right place at the right time but he's just an atrocious tackler.

Not good in coverage either but of everything thats one I think he could improve the most.

[Mike B]

His biggest weakness is the inability to be physical with tackling.  I don't know how you rectify that problem.  He's a very good athlete, is fast and eventually, will learn to be in the right place at the right time but he's just an atrocious tackler. 

I think it is want to, and fundamentals.

 

At times he shows good form.  If he can square up Queen is fine tackling.  It is when he is on the move, he does not break down and use his feet and arms at the point of contact.

 

Late in the games the Lions ran a screen  on their sideline.  Queen came from the other side, and got to the play after someone else missed a tackle(maybe Bowser), and instead of squaring up tried to block the back down.  What could have been a hell of a play turned into more reason to bash Queen.

[jamesdean]

I think it is want to, and fundamentals.

 

At times he shows good form.  If he can square up Queen is fine tackling.  It is when he is on the move, he does not break down and use his feet and arms at the point of contact.

 

Late in the games the Lions ran a screen  on their sideline.  Queen came from the other side, and got to the play after someone else missed a tackle(maybe Bowser), and instead of squaring up tried to block the back down.  What could have been a hell of a play turned into more reason to bash Queen.

You can drum someone senseless with fundamentals but in a live game in real time, you only have a split second to actually do it. Just like anything else, it takes talent to be a great tackler and a certain form of aggression that can't be taught.  I'm trying not to give up on the guy but he's killing the team with yards after contact.  Not that he's the only culprit out there.  Most of them are terrible tacklers and they've got the stats to show for it.  I'm just not too sure Queen's weaknesses are fixable. 

[hallas]

I think it is want to, and fundamentals.

At times he shows good form. If he can square up Queen is fine tackling. It is when he is on the move, he does not break down and use his feet and arms at the point of contact.

Late in the games the Lions ran a screen on their sideline. Queen came from the other side, and got to the play after someone else missed a tackle(maybe Bowser), and instead of squaring up tried to block the back down. What could have been a hell of a play turned into more reason to bash Queen.

IMO he sometimes shows bad form because he's out of position to begin with. He takes bad angles to the ballcarrier and has to twist himself to make a tackle, then gets trucked.

The out of position part is a lack of football awareness IMO. Oweh has more of this despite only having 3 games under his belt. And it's why I don't think Queen will ever be an impact player.

BTW Malik Harrison has regressed badly too. He is still terrible against the pass, but now he struggles vs the run. His run defense last year was at least something he could build on.

[Mike in STL]

 

 

Tyre Phillips returned to practice yesterday, so he has 21-days to be added back to the 53-man. Would be October 30th.

 

Ravens have a lot less guys on the injury report this week than the last two.

 

Out: Stanley (Knee), Ferguson (COVID. Hits some harder than others as he is still showing symptoms)

Questionable: Villanueva (Knee), Stone (Thigh), Elliott (Quad).

 

If AV doesn't play, I expect both Andre Smith and David Sharpe to be promoted giving them 8 lineman. I would at least try Sharpe instead of Smith if AV does suit up. 

 

49 guys are on the active roster. Here is ideally what would be exciting. 

Activate Bateman and Boykin. Brings the roster to 51. 

Villanueva plays and Sharpe and Le'Veon Bell get the promotion. One of which technically being COVID replacement for Ferguson. Gives you 53 on the game day roster and 8 lineman. Need to make 5 inactive.

Stanley is out takes you to 52

Wallace sitting with the promotion of Bateman and Boykin takes you to 51.

Bell up, Freeman down gives you 50. 

Depending on the health of the safeties, one of the questionable, or Ar'Darius Washington takes you to 49.

Josh Bynes, or Kristian Welch seems expendable, you can still roll with 4 ILBs, takes you to 48.