61 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

Even though to Biggsy's point it's hard to trade a stud player when you're a legit contender, letting him leave for a comp pick also seems like a waste..

You could tag him after 2021 and then trade him, I think for way more than a 2023 end-of-3rd (comp pick).

Agree that you've gotta explore what his trade value is. And need to explore what you could get elsewhere for a 1st and/or 2nd round pick. Also should kick the tires on what he'd want for an extension. Get all the info you can then make the best decision possible.

[Biggsy]

You could tag him after 2021 and then trade him, I think for way more than a 2023 end-of-3rd (comp pick).

Agree that you've gotta explore what his trade value is. And need to explore what you could get elsewhere for a 1st and/or 2nd round pick. Also should kick the tires on what he'd want for an extension. Get all the info you can then make the best decision possible.

DeCosta mentioned exploring extensions for both Andrews and Brown. Even said having a great offensive line was a goal of his. I know people on here don't like the idea of paying big money for 2 offensive lineman. But we don't blink twice when we do it for the defensive line. The offensive line might be the single most important unit to this team. So I'm 100% in on paying Brown.

If you restructure Boyle and Williams. I'd say bring in Thuney and draft Leatherwood. You would absolutely have to load the box and bring 7 every play to stop this run game. Bring in Robinson/Golladay/Juju with Hollywood and Andrews, and it becomes a lot harder to do that.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I maintain my belief that you wont get a 1st for Brown but I could be wrong. If you can then I think you have to trade him. There just isnt enough money to go around and Baltimore does a pretty good job of developing OL. I think an interior lineman is more important than Brown anyway. I mean I love Brown but I do think Mekari or even Phillips may be able to provide good enough RT work. Obviously drafting OL is going to be an every year thing as well.

[Huddle It Up Films]

So is anybody either with me or strongly disagree that (to keep it simple) if Zeus only costs 4-5 million/year more than Andrews, you'd prioritize Zeus? I had prioritized Andrews until what I saw this year from Zeus. Still not really sure honestly.

[Biggsy]

I maintain my belief that you wont get a 1st for Brown but I could be wrong. If you can then I think you have to trade him. There just isnt enough money to go around and Baltimore does a pretty good job of developing OL. I think an interior lineman is more important than Brown anyway. I mean I love Brown but I do think Mekari or even Phillips may be able to provide good enough RT work. Obviously drafting OL is going to be an every year thing as well.

The problem I have with that is Stanley. He hasn't exactly been the picture of health. You trade Brown and get a first. Great. Now Stanley goes down and.... what? Your franchise player is running for his life every passing down.

Signing Brown long term not only gives you top bookends. It protects you if Stanley goes down again.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

So is anybody either with me or strongly disagree that (to keep it simple) if Zeus only costs 4-5 million/year more than Andrews, you'd prioritize Zeus? I had prioritized Andrews until what I saw this year from Zeus. Still not really sure honestly.

Andrews is Lamars guy. Hes a legit top 3 receiving TE in the game and most importantly we do a good job of developing OL. I have no problem if you think Brown is a bit better at his job than Andrews, though both are Pro Bowl caliber. If Ronnie wasnt here and locked in at LT Id prioritize Brown over Andrews. Not with how things are now.

[JordanKough]

I'm not as high on Andrews as I was. I want better hands from a guy that plays in his role. We need guys that can make contested catches. And I think to some degree, Lamar over relies on him. So some of his success might also do with forcing him the ball a bit. 

 

He's excellent at finding soft spots in zone. But other than that, what's his big strength? It's a bit ironic at this stage, but I want a guy who can catch the not great throws to match Lamar's accuracy being not perfect, and that felt a bit more like Hurst. I think Andrews could put on more bulk and he's underrated (or maybe rated) as a blocker and gives you more than you'd expect there. 

 

All that being said, Lamar trusts him. And if you can coach all of that up right, Andrews is worth a lot. His performance follows right in line with Kelce's first three years in the league, noting that Kelce actually missed most of his rookie year. So I think upside can still be there for Andrews, too. If you think he can improve on the contested catches, sign him long-term now. If you don't, I'd let him play out the rookie deal and then decide after a year of hopefully improved passing on offense as a whole from the team. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The problem I have with that is Stanley. He hasn't exactly been the picture of health. You trade Brown and get a first. Great. Now Stanley goes down and.... what? Your franchise player is running for his life every passing down.

Signing Brown long term not only gives you top bookends. It protects you if Stanley goes down again.

But you have your LT and he's locked in for awhile. Ideally you don't have to make tough decisions. I think this is one you make. BTW Im totally fine with just extending things out with Brown and letting him play out '21. Then taking either the tag and trade route or comp pick.

[JordanKough]

The more I think of it, the more I think you invest in the OL more than anything. It helps your run game and it gives Lamar more time and better running lanes which he needs. Think the Cowboys type of line in front of Lamar a few years ago. That team might be impossible to beat. I'd be trying to replicate that as best I could if I was Baltimore. 

 

This is a pipe dream, but if this team had Stanley, Bozeman, Jensen, Yanda, Brown together this year. Look out...I'd be doing my best to put together a OL like that, and that starts with paying Brown. The receiving positions can be schemed open if teams are overcommitting to the run and you can hold up in pass protection. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I'm not as high on Andrews as I was. I want better hands from a guy that plays in his role. We need guys that can make contested catches. And I think to some degree, Lamar over relies on him. So some of his success might also do with forcing him the ball a bit.

He's excellent at finding soft spots in zone. But other than that, what's his big strength? It's a bit ironic at this stage, but I want a guy who can catch the not great throws to match Lamar's accuracy being not perfect, and that felt a bit more like Hurst. I think Andrews could put on more bulk and he's underrated (or maybe rated) as a blocker and gives you more than you'd expect there.

All that being said, Lamar trusts him. And if you can coach all of that up right, Andrews is worth a lot. His performance follows right in line with Kelce's first three years in the league, noting that Kelce actually missed most of his rookie year. So I think upside can still be there for Andrews, too. If you think he can improve on the contested catches, sign him long-term now. If you don't, I'd let him play out the rookie deal and then decide after a year of hopefully improved passing on offense as a whole from the team.

I dont get the contested catch thing. He makes a lot of tough catches. Hes the type of weapon that in a lot of ways we've never had. Maybe Sharpe was similar. He's better than Heap and Pitta IMO.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

More importantly hes a huge target thats mobile and has a big catch radius even if his hands aren't super glue.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

That said, if the Ravens did decide to pay Brown and let Andrews go I'd be ok with that. Having a top notch OL is awesome.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Speaking of OL did y'all see SG and Gabe's boy Wagner getting absolutely bitched by TB yesterday. Yikes.

[Huddle It Up Films]

Andrews is elite at finding space and creating throwing lanes. His hands are average imo. I think Andrews is easier to replace than Zeus and the next time Stanley goes down that could make a big difference. It's tough because I love Andrews but I don't know who I'd take in the scenario I posted. Probably Zeus. Lamar will be good over the middle no matter what.

[JordanKough]

I actually think Hollywood's contest catch hands are better than Andrews, he's just a much smaller target in that sense. And he did have a bad 3 game stretch that everyone is going to remember most. 

 

I'll disagree about Andrews hands, but again, it could have just been a bad year and it's still there. He just misses too many catches that we need big time play makers to make. I'd rather allocate that cap space to say OL if he's not going to be able to make those type of catches. So that doesn't make him worse than Heap or Pitta, but it doesn't take him to a level where I'd want to invest there rather than the OL. 

 

I trust the Ravens to evaluate his ability to make big time catches that are a bit wilder or harder to make. If he can, I'd pay him whatever it takes. If he can't step forward there, I'm fine with cap reallocation. I don't feel as strongly as Biggsy about Judon, but similar concept to me, just not worth the cap dedication to me. Brown improves run and passing game, and I lean that way as such. 

[Mackus]

I'm absolutely on board with extending Brown if you can make the cap work or simply just decide that you want him to be the top priority to build around behind Lamar, Humphrey, and Stanley rather than Andrews or Judon or a top FA WR or anybody else.

But, just to be devil's advocate here a bit, weren't we all a little underwhelmed with his play at RT this season prior to the switch back to LT? I worry a tiny bit about motivation for him if he's only going to be a RT after he's gotten a big payday. I'd still be more than willing to sign him to a near $15M AAV deal which is what I think it'll take, but just something to consider when weighing that option against some of the other possibilities.

[JordanKough]

Mackus, I agree with you. He wasn't really elite at RT before that. But I also think some of that was the zone read being prominent before we went to the double pull counter looks. You want more versatility out of a top tier money though. 

 

But something felt out of sorts for the entire OL before that, even Stanely. So a bit harder to evaluate that, too. 

[Huddle It Up Films]

In pass pro I think he's great at either LT or RT. In the run game at RT I think he struggles sealing the edge. It's almost like he's too tall. He can move people but when it comes to being engaged and moving your feet to turn your man, he's not that good. Guys can free themselves from him. Fluker & Mekari were actually a little stickier than him on those plays. LT is his natural position because of what each position requires.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Right hes a LT so trade him if and when a team offers LT compensation. Even if its a little below max value for him. Let Mekari play RT. Oh and find someone who can snap the damn ball.

[JordanKough]

In pass pro I think he's great at either LT or RT. In the run game at RT I think he struggles sealing the edge. It's almost like he's too tall. He can move people but when it comes to being engaged and moving your feet to turn your man, he's not that good. Guys can free themselves from him. Fluker & Mekari were actually a little stickier than him on those plays. LT is his natural position because of what each position requires.

 

Yeah if the Ravens agree with you on this, I agree with those who say they need to trade him, too. 

 

I didn't hate Mekari when he was out there, and he gives you the ability to pull from RT, too. 

 

This move of Brown/Andrews and all the other free agents doesn't happen in a vacuum, so to many degress, I trust the Ravens to get it right.