127 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

If no-knock warrants are legal then it shouldn't be a crime for people inside to shoot at the officers coming through the door.  As far as I'm aware, in most jurisdictions, it's legal to defend your home if an armed intruder breaks in.  Until the officers have clearly identified themselves, it's entirely reasonable for the people inside to consider anyone coming through as armed intruders.  And I don't think in the mere seconds after someone busts down the door it's possible for the people inside to fully grasp that it's police coming in rather than someone else meaning to do them harm.

 

I'm not advocating people shooting the police.  But if someone (even if it's a police officer with a warrant to do so) busted down the door of a police precinct and rushed in armed to the teeth, he would certainly face immediate return fire from the officers inside.  And none of those officers inside would (or should) face charges. 

[Nigel Tufnel]

To the earlier point, in 3 minutes they can't break down their operation, 

 

3 seconds.

[Old Man]

3 seconds.

In fairness, I have read it both ways, depending on the publication.

[JeremyStrain]

3 seconds.

Ah, my bad. Yeah wouldn't be enough time to set up claymores or anything. BUT would still give them a chance to grab a weapon and fire at the doors about to be breached though, so still some safety concern there too.

[Nigel Tufnel]

In fairness, I have read it both ways, depending on the publication.

 

You read Mike Randall's post in multiple publications?

[Old Man]

Ah, my bad. Yeah wouldn't be enough time to set up claymores or anything. BUT would still give them a chance to grab a weapon and fire at the doors about to be breached though, so still some safety concern there too.

NY Times is reporting that the no knock warrant was changed to Knock and Announce.

 

Which may explain why it wasn't the SWAT team, or other trained entry team.

 

Doesnt change that they werent following precedures either, nor does it change the body cam issue. Allegedly one of the officers was wearing his mount, but not his camera.

 

[mweb08]

I'm going to share (again) the issue of Vanity Fair dedicated to Breonna Taylor and the overall issue at hand here:

https://www.vanityfa...-the-great-fire

It is edited by Ta-Nehisi Coates and he contributes the amazing essay bearing the name of the issue (The Great Fire) as well as an interview of Breonna's mother, which is well worth the read.

[mweb08]

Also, an article on the interesting dynamic of a league that is more progressive than most in many ways, but in which the political donations of its governors often don't match that.

https://www.theringe...tions-trump-gop

[NewMarketSean]

The War On Drugs has failed. Failed America and it’s citizens. Failed citizens of other countries.

End all of its policies now. Especially no knock warrants.

[mweb08]

Also, an article on the interesting dynamic of a league that is more progressive than most in many ways, but in which the political donations of its governors often don't match that.

https://www.theringe...tions-trump-gop

Stan Van Gundy however...

BLACK LIVES MATTER. Yeah you can tweet your BS about it being a Marxist organization, but BLACK LIVES MATTER is not just an organization. It is a statement and a movement. Those opposing BLACK LIVES MATTER are not standing against Marxism, they are standing against the message.

[NewMarketSean]

Stan Van Gundy however...

BLACK LIVES MATTER. Yeah you can tweet your BS about it being a Marxist organization, but BLACK LIVES MATTER is not just an organization. It is a statement and a movement. Those opposing BLACK LIVES MATTER are not standing against Marxism, they are standing against the message.

Yes. They seek to decredit the words. 

[Mike in STL]

The War On Drugs has failed. Failed America and it’s citizens. Failed citizens of other countries.

End all of its policies now. Especially no knock warrants.

We pour millions (billions?) into stopping what obviously can’t be stopped. Both sides of the aisle complain when the the other side wastes money. This is universally wasted money.

[The Epic]

We pour millions (billions?) into stopping what obviously can’t be stopped. Both sides of the aisle complain when the the other side wastes money. This is universally wasted money.

 

The problem is that if you admit that, it's saying you "support the criminals."

 

It's like when you think defense spending should be cut, you think that it means you don't "support the troops."

 

Yes, it's INCREDIBLY stupid, but people want to maintain that sweet, sweet legal slavery money, so that's what they do.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Relating this larger topic back to the sports world... 

Yahoo: Charles Barkley, Shaquille O'Neil draw backlash for pushing back on Breonna Taylor outrage
https://sports.yahoo...-051020472.html

[The Epic]

Relating this larger topic back to the sports world... 

Yahoo: Charles Barkley, Shaquille O'Neil draw backlash for pushing back on Breonna Taylor outrage
https://sports.yahoo...-051020472.html

 

This is -peak- dumbassery, and I'm not surprised. 

 

I want a show of hands as to the (armed) people in this group that would NOT shoot someone if they busted down the door to your home, unannounced.

[mweb08]

This is -peak- dumbassery, and I'm not surprised.

I want a show of hands as to the (armed) people in this group that would NOT shoot someone if they busted down the door to your home, unannounced.

Beyond that, it's absurd that the officers were even doing this raid for multiple reasons.

With that said, much of culpability here is on the judge that issued the warrant and the police department for everything they did that led to those specific officers being put in that situation. And zooming out even further, the laws themselves that allowed for this to happen.

All that said, shooting and killing a person should probably result in a charge when shooting into a wall does. I don't know, maybe that's crazy?

[Old Man]

This is -peak- dumbassery, and I'm not surprised. 

 

I want a show of hands as to the (armed) people in this group that would NOT shoot someone if they busted down the door to your home, unannounced.

The key word here is unannounced. There are witnesses that claimed they heard, and there are witnesses that claimed they didnt.

Without the damn body camera, who the heck really truly know, except for those directly involved and one of them is dead.

 

Personally, I wish I was that fast, to go get my gun, trigger lock off, get the clip from another location, load it up and get a shot off. I have a better chance of getting my shotgun out, getting shells from another location and loading it. Racking a shell into the chamber makes a loud enough sound, it might just deter somebody.

[JeremyStrain]

The problem is that if you admit that, it's saying you "support the criminals."

It's like when you think defense spending should be cut, you think that it means you don't "support the troops."

Yes, it's INCREDIBLY stupid, but people want to maintain that sweet, sweet legal slavery money, so that's what they do.

The old with us or against us conundrum. Like the world only has two outcomes for every decision.

There was a really cool social psych experiment done on this at some school a while back. It was almost like a choose your own adventure book but you had to choose one or the other outcome from a bunch of situations and they all snowballed into what your next choices were basically creating a set of beliefs from black or white answers. An overwhelming number of people did not like the people they became because of the linear answers.

[The Epic]

Beyond that, it's absurd that the officers were even doing this raid for multiple reasons.

With that said, much of culpability here is on the judge that issued the warrant and the police department for everything they did that led to those specific officers being put in that situation. And zooming out even further, the laws themselves that allowed for this to happen.

All that said, shooting and killing a person should probably result in a charge when shooting into a wall does. I don't know, maybe that's crazy?

 

I completely agree that we need to take several steps back to get to the heart of the issues here, which are primarily systemic. 

 

I'm happy with the people that are attacking the lack of charges and simultaneously talking about what happened to get us to this point (warrant, no-knocks in general, qualified immunity, body cams, etc). 

[The Epic]

The key word here is unannounced. There are witnesses that claimed they heard, and there are witnesses that claimed they didnt.

Without the damn body camera, who the heck really truly know, except for those directly involved and one of them is dead.

 

Personally, I wish I was that fast, to go get my gun, trigger lock off, get the clip from another location, load it up and get a shot off. I have a better chance of getting my shotgun out, getting shells from another location and loading it. Racking a shell into the chamber makes a loud enough sound, it might just deter somebody.

 

Police should lose the benefit of the doubt. Burden of proof should be on them. They very well COULD have worn body cams and removed all doubt, but they did not. That's entirely on them. 

 

He-said-she-said should never be in question with regard to police confrontations.