133 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

As recently as Apr or May of this year there were still fools bitching about Lopez after his first 12 innings were good. Still crying about Mancini too. Fast forward to Sept and Lopez is back after being released twice. Mancini also released twice. Oops.

This isnt trying to rehash the trade process as of Aug 1 of '22. If you felt we should've kept both a year ago I get it. I didnt love the return for Lopez at the time. Let the process keep playing out moving forward. Bitching about Mancini and Lopez not being on the '23 roster didnt age well.

This is all it ever came down to for me - not the ‘23 roster. I accidentally fell deeply in love with the 2022 team and wanted to take a shot at it. But it’s in the past, and yes the ‘23 roster part definitely hasn’t aged well at all.

I know you don’t like Povich, but let’s suspend disbelief for a second and fantasize. Say Felix is hurt next year. They call up Povich at some point. He pitches well. Cano gets the 8th inning, a rehabilitated and confident Jorge Lopez gets the 9th. Let’s make this hypothetical occurrence against the Twins for extra savagery. Imagine the commotion.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Yeah I was thinking he’s not going to get a big raise after this year. He’s making 3.5M, probably at most like the 5M Givens is making but not likely that high even. They have a month to see if they think he is fixable. But people are acting like a non tender is a foregone conclusion, I don’t think that’s true.

Even in a pennant race the bar just isn’t that high for 9th guy in the bullpen or whatever he is right now.

Things can change in the next month depending on how things go with him. Not necessarily just results but if they think they have truly got him back on track in some way. That said, a non tender is very likely as we sit here today. Even with a solid Sept you prob just try to work out a FA deal at a lower price tag. You can only take so much of a cut in arb right? I dont think Im making that up. So even if the Os and Jorge wanted to sign say a 2 mil deal and avoid arb they prob couldnt do it. They technically would have to non tender him first and then re-sign him as a FA. You all can tell me if I got that wrong but I was thinking a 20% paycut is the max you can offer in arb.

[dude]

As recently as Apr or May of this year there were still fools bitching about Lopez after his first 12 innings were good. Still crying about Mancini too. Fast forward to Sept and Lopez is back after being released twice. Mancini also released twice. Oops.

This isnt trying to rehash the trade process as of Aug 1 of '22. If you felt we should've kept both a year ago I get it. I didnt love the return for Lopez at the time. Let the process keep playing out moving forward. Bitching about Mancini and Lopez not being on the '23 roster didnt age well.

 

Way to create a strawman argument to elevate your position against a group of people that don't exist.

 

For nearly everyone, it wasn't about the trade (or any of the players) it was about the message the trade sent about the Organizational commitment to making the Playoffs when they were 2 games back.

 

Regardless of what Lopez and Mancini do or don't do or whatever the return does or doesn't do, it's only about the message it sent at that very specific moment.  That will never change.  Period.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

100% people were bitching in Apr- May about not having Lopez on this '23 roster. It happened on this board and elsewhere on the interwebs.


No go away. Back to your other fav teams message boards. Its nice for BSL when you are more into talking Reds or Giants or DBacks. Whoever your flavor of the week is for that week.

[BobPhelan]

Yeah, trading them clearly caused issues in the clubhouse that are still felt to this day... 

[dude]

100% people were bitching in Apr- May about not having Lopez on this '24 roster. It happened on this board.

 

Not really.  There's groups of people that wanted to reflect on the trade based on how Jorge was or wasn't doing as justification for trading him (that's the direction that got pushback).

 

You want to move the goalposts to push back against the angst that some had about it in 2022. 

Gee...you looking to create conflict <<shocker>>

[dude]

Yeah, trading them clearly caused issues in the clubhouse that are still felt to this day... 

 

I still feel like you are better than this.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Yeah, trading them clearly caused issues in the clubhouse that are still felt to this day...

Just made that whole group turn on the FO. All the players have stewed for months. Some Major League s**t going on. They all in there tearing pieces of clothing off cardboard Mike after every win.

[makoman]

This is all it ever came down to for me - not the ‘23 roster. I accidentally fell deeply in love with the 2022 team and wanted to take a shot at it. But it’s in the past, and yes the ‘23 roster part definitely hasn’t aged well at all.

I know you don’t like Povich, but let’s suspend disbelief for a second and fantasize. Say Felix is hurt next year. They call up Povich at some point. He pitches well. Cano gets the 8th inning, a rehabilitated and confident Jorge Lopez gets the 9th. Let’s make this hypothetical occurrence against the Twins for extra savagery. Imagine the commotion.

Wells and Coulombe also need to be in this game.

[makoman]

Things can change in the next month depending on how things go with him. Not necessarily just results but if they think they have truly got him back on track in some way. That said, a non tender is very likely as we sit here today. Even with a solid Sept you prob just try to work out a FA deal at a lower price tag. You can only take so much of a cut in arb right? I dont think Im making that up. So even if the Os and Jorge wanted to sign say a 2 mil deal and avoid arb they prob couldnt do it. They technically would have to non tender him first and then re-sign him as a FA. You all can tell me if I got that wrong but I was thinking a 20% paycut is the max you can offer in arb.

20% cut is the max, right, though cuts are pretty rare IIRC. I think 3.5-5M is fine if you think he’s a reliable reliever. Hopefully they figure that out in the next month.

[mweb08]

Cool. Hopefully they can help him return to something resembling the last time he donned the black and orange.

Btw, if they can, then maybe he would have been good if they kept him.

[BobPhelan]

Activated for todays game.

[Mike B]

Activated for todays game.

Welcome back Jorge.   Hopefully the friendly faces help him get going.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Jorge's sliders have been really nasty the last two nights. Its 2 appearances and only an 1.2 innings but its a little something. Especially if he keeps this slider going. He gave up 2 hits last night but they were both bull bull. One doinker dropped in front of Hicks when he had time to catch it. Ced would've had it easy. The other was a soft roller that gets under Mateo's glove.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Went back and watched his first 2 appearances against Ari and LAA. He threw a few knuckle curves and those games but was mostly fastball/change. These Bos games he has been heavy on slider and IMO a sweeper. More tilt and horitzonal break vs vertical break on his slower breaking ball. Slider was wipeout. Numerous swings and misses. Im kinda getting excited about his prospects. Clear changes theyve made with him and the early results are great

[BaltBird 24]

Too bad he won't be eligible for postseason play.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It might be too bad because I wont be surprised if he is our best RP down the stretch

[BaltBird 24]

Very possible.

I think Hyde is riding Webb too hard. Cano should be OK most of the time. Fuji is just too volatile.

Really sucks that something is seriously wrong with Wells. He's much needed in the pen.

[JeremyStrain]

It might be too bad because I wont be surprised if he is our best RP down the stretch

DL Hall will save the day.

[mdrunning]

While I realize that last night was a small sample, it appeared as if the the pitches Lopez threw that didn't have to be strikes, weren't so. What seemed to get him in trouble toward the end of his first stint here was, he'd get ahead of a hitter, then the next pitch would leak back out over the plate and get belted. I seem to recall that happening on consecutive days against Minnesota back in late June or early July of 2022, and that's when Lopez's troubles began.