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2021 MLB Draft


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#521 dude

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:10 PM

May have originally been his intent, but then when he complained that they had wives before day 3 and he didn't believe that they gained them ON day 3 it negated that.

 

He just went too far over a line, demanding of others free time, and doubled and tripled down by not admitting or understanding that he did. It was entitled and insulting.

 

Humor.  You missed it. 

 

You somehow read the worst intentions out of context and then ignore the other words like...."I like you guys and I feel you guys do good work,...", "and your personal investment in that area is great.", "I appreciate the work you guys put in..."



#522 dude

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:23 PM

"The guys whose unpaid labor I've been consuming haven't given me enough free content on the exact topics I expect and demand! They should put aside their families for the sake of my entertainment!"

-dude

 

Not that it matters, but Weber requested I address your take.

 

Nothing you suggested here is included in what I wrote.  You are welcome to your flawed opinion, but you don't get to create my viewpoint.



#523 Slidemaster

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:46 PM

Wrong.


Great analysis. What a tremendous contribution.

Clown.

#524 Mashed Potatoes

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 01:58 PM

Not that it matters, but Weber requested I address your take.

Nothing you suggested here is included in what I wrote. You are welcome to your flawed opinion, but you don't get to create my viewpoint.


If you send me your address I'll legit buy you one of these. https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/B01NCXU8SH
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#525 BobPhelan

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:04 PM

I think (Bob correct me if this is wrong) the answer is 40. They had a momentary technical challenge at the beginning and Bob noted that they had 40 people watching online. I wasn't one of them, I watched Day1 later. Chris could likely tell you details about how many views (live) and total there were.....but 40 people tuning in to that live broadcast seems like a pretty good (really good) number at this stage of growth.

That's the purpose of the podcast and the larger platform. That's the business model for Chris. Eyeballs equal opportunity.

I can't speak for the specific motivations of Bob, Nick, Stephen and Zach in terms of this podcast, but it's certainly the most active podcast currently in the profile and they have done (are doing) a good job with it. The podcast is routinely promoted on the Main Board to try and generate views. They have asked and Chris has asked for questions for the podcasts to cover (like Maury Brown one too...which was interesting and well done.)

I have no idea how many people watched Day2. I had to watch it in parts and not live (because I had to go to dinner with my family :)) but I thought Day1 and Day2 were both well done. I think there was a definite change in the tone as it didn't appear that the Orioles had nailed that splashier pick (or picks). They certainly didn't do anything exciting (not that something can't be good) on Day3.

I went back and listened to the end of Day2 to make sure I didn't miss somerthing...no mention of not doing a Day3....given the apparent success of Day1 (views) and Day2, Day3 would have seemed (at least to me) like the most reasonable assumption in terms of closing out the Draft.

Guarantee those 3 have spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours over the last 4-8 months developing their information for this most-important-in-the-entire-year 3-day period. I am not over-reacting to the draft in any direction. I shared my summation word (disappointing) and Bob asked me to justify it. As I was putting together post #492 a couple days ago, I was curious as to what the overall feel would be OnTheVerge....because it didn't seem like it was that exciting of a draft to me and I was curious what the other perspectives would be and that's how we develop better perspectives. It struck me as odd that there wasn't one and I waited for 24 hours and then 48 hours before positing my 'short answer' to Bob....because if they were excited about the Draft, my guess would be they'd be sharing that on what seems to have been a fairly popular couple days of podcast, which is good exposure for them (whatever their personal goals are) and certainly adds value to the site.

There are some fairly straightforward wrap up questions, right? Now that the names are in, what 'too early' grade do you put on it. Who should we be watching near term, long term. Best Day3 picks? Do you think the Draft strategy worked? Who had the best drafts...I liked Bob's comment after Day2 about Cleveland because "he knew most of the guys they drafted."

They spend thousands of hours getting there....do a 60 minute show on Day1 (good), a 72minute show on day2 (good) and we're leaving Day3 and the wrap up to hot takes in 160 characters or less on Twitter? Seems a little anti-climactic to me....especially given they had 40 live views on Day1.

Seems like more excitement about the draft could have led to carving out a couple hours to produce a 30 minute show over 2 or more days to package up 8 months of fairly significant investment.

Maybe I'm wrong.

We established the plan to cover the draft after the Matt Blood podcast. We knew day one would be covering only one pick and hoped it would generate enough discussion points (it did) and day two would be the bulk of interesting guys. We figured we would talk about day three the following week if there was anything particularly interesting since it was going to be mostly fliers and filler. I did get a “please tell me you’re not podcasting for a third straight day tonight” so I think we made the right choice haha.

But yeah we had pretty good numbers for our live stream on day 1 (and great interaction), a little bit less on day 2 (20-30). I appreciate the kind words about the show. I’ll go back and look at your post and respond.
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#526 BobPhelan

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 02:27 PM

1) It feels like a high-floor draft to me. You have almost exclusively college kids with one better tool. It wouldn't surprise me to see a useful player or 2. Last year, I could envision some of these guys being starters. Other than Cowser in RF, I don't see where I'd reasonably project any of these guys as starters for a competitive team. Could Norby be a decent hit-first 2B....maybe...but would I project him over Jones, Varva or Westburg....not today. I know there was an earlier discussion about college projection versus HS and we could likely find players to support either camp...but an more unfinished product might unlock something (through development) to separate them. It feels intentional in this draft.....nearly all college players and outside of trimble...does any profile strike as a breakout kid? Mike Elias would explain to me why I'm wrong....and he got the guys he wanted and they're all going to be great. I hope so. I wouldn't bet on him being right.

2) I'm not a fan of the Cowser pick. I like it better than Frelick, but that's what I can say. Doesn't seem likely he'll be in CF, more of a better RF profile. I've seen the comps (by some) to Markakis. OK. Let's try a bias test. Don't look at the numbers. [I see you cheaters] if Cowser become Markakis, that would be good, right? Would you feel good about the pick if he become...say...Brett Gardner? Yes? No? He may wind up with more WAR than a guy like Lawler or Rocker or Watson, but if you're trying to build something meaningful with that pick, put you money on the meaningful, not the safe profile. Again, Elias would tell me his performance will be impactful. I hope so....still wouldn't bet on it.

3) The Orioles were the only team in MLB to take 2 unranked (mlb.com top 250) 4YR SR in the top 5 rounds. If you look at most of the other teams that took one, you can see by their other selections why they are trying to save money on a richer slot. That's certainly not the Orioles draft. Those are no-leverage guys with almost 1M (956k) in slot. They took 8 4YR SR over all and maybe that's not that remarkable in any direction, but it's certainly limiting on what they need to spend in this draft. Everyone takes them, some probably took more, but this isn't an evaluation of others drafts, just the Orioles.

4) I have no issue taking college arms...but none of them were ranked (again, mlb.com top 250) kids and I think it's an ok strategy to try and find useful bullpen pieces. Likely a lot of one-plus pitch type guys or maybe injuries so no issues largely there, there just isn't anything exciting (potential/upside) in those rounds. Time will certainly tell.

5) I was interested in one of the analysts thoughts on the system being lighter in replaceable bats versus pitchers. It actually got me thinking about all the OFers they're taking....like is the goal to try and fill up each team with a good player at each position....does that actually mean anything. If you think about it....that means we'd be drafting for minor league need. That's what it feels like a little. Did we really need to draft 4 OFers in the first 5 picks?...that will certainly push some older guys into the lower leagues so maybe their chance to perform is better there? ...but so what.


1. Can’t find much to disagree with here. I agree it’s a high floor draft and think Elias’ strategy might end up being high floor drafts, high ceiling international classes. I would say Trimble, Rhodes, Creed Willems, and their 20th round pick Trendon Craig could be overslot picks that could break out a bit.

2. I actually like the Cowser pick a lot, as I’m sure you know. Personally would’ve gone with Watson over him but not by much. Reading more about the way he built himself up to increase strength and speed before this college season and that he already uses data to work on adjustments tells me he’s a great fit with this system. A Nick Markakis bat that can play let’s say around an average CF and isn’t slow as molasses is pretty exciting.

3. I think Cowser isn’t going to be as underslot as we initially thought and some guys might be a little more overslot than we thought.

4. I saw someone say that all of the arms we took follow our model of fastballs with backspin or good ride and a good breaking pitch. Apparently they are confident in their ability to teach a solid change up.

5. I don’t see it as drafting for need. I see it as drafting the guys they best feel fit their development system and whose offensive profile they can benefit. Seems like they don’t care about strikeouts and want at least two of the following attributes: hit tool, power, on base skills. They also seem to be focused on positional flexibility. At the same time I think having a balanced lineup and raising the floor of the system is good for breeding competition and raising the odds of breakout candidates.

I would give the draft a solid B.
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#527 JeremyStrain

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 03:20 PM

Humor. You missed it.

You somehow read the worst intentions out of context and then ignore the other words like...."I like you guys and I feel you guys do good work,...", "and your personal investment in that area is great.", "I appreciate the work you guys put in..."


That’s because you insulted the hell out of them in one breath and then think that if you compliment them later it makes up for you being entitled and demanding things from volunteer content providers. It doesn’t. And you doubling down later and trying to make it about your view of the draft doesn’t change the point all of us made. It was ignorant and if I didn’t think that you were just clueless I would have suspended you for trolling because of your follow ups and complete lack of an apology.
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#528 dude

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 03:21 PM

We established the plan to cover the draft the way we did after the Matt Blood podcast. 

 

My bad.  Day3/Wrap up show would have seemed natural to me. 

 

I'm sure that stuff will get covered on a future show as guys are signed and whatever.


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#529 dude

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 03:41 PM

.... being entitled and demanding things from volunteer content providers. 

 

You holding onto this narrative doesn't make it real.  



#530 Slidemaster

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 03:56 PM

You holding onto this narrative doesn't make it real.


To be fair, you saying that narrative isn't real also doesn't make it false.

You said something that was universally taken in an overwhelmingly negative way. Whether it was taken how you intended it or not, the right thing to do is to just apologize and move on. Instead you have doubled down on what you said and utterly refuse to admit doing or saying anything wrong. Everyone else is the problem.

Just do the right thing and apologize.
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#531 RichardZ

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 06:56 PM

"Maybe I'm wrong"

Nah! I don't think he's seriously considering that possibility.
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#532 Mackus

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 07:41 PM

#1 pick Henry Davis signs for $6.5M. $1.9M below slot. Wonder how Pittsburgh Sports & Life is handling the underslot approach with the top pick.

#533 BaltBird 24

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 07:52 PM

#1 pick Henry Davis signs for $6.5M. $1.9M below slot. Wonder how Pittsburgh Sports & Life is handling the underslot approach with the top pick.


Was the rest of their draft lackluster as well?

#534 Mackus

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 08:04 PM


Was the rest of their draft lackluster as well?


They took one of the Clemson QBs in the 3rd or 4th round, I imagine that's where most of the savings are going.

#535 BobPhelan

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 08:20 PM

Was the rest of their draft lackluster as well?


They had a great draft.

#536 Slidemaster

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 08:29 PM


They took one of the Clemson QBs in the 3rd or 4th round, I imagine that's where most of the savings are going.

Bubba Chandler?

#537 dude

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 11:16 PM

Was the rest of their draft lackluster as well?

 

echoing others, they had a great draft.  They leveraged their position significantly.  DRAFT TRACKER

 

They had a Comp-B pick like the Orioles but wound up taking (mlb.com ranked) #5, #17, #72 and #21 with their first 4 picks and selected a top100 kid in rd 14.  Solometo (#17) was one of the better LHP in the draft. Chandler (#21) was an OTV favorite.  They basically drafted 3 first round (top21) kids.  Good split of college and HS, good split of position vs P.

 

Today's grades are meaningless and they have to get everyone signed (we'll see), but it's an A today.


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#538 Mackus

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 12:05 PM

Bubba Chandler?

 

Yes.

 

He just signed for $3M, which is $2.13M overslot, all of the savings from going with Henry and then some.



#539 dude

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 05:54 PM

Yes.

 

He just signed for $3M, which is $2.13M overslot, all of the savings from going with Henry and then some.

 

They also already signed Solometo so that's the 3 big fish....they have to already have the other money in their pocket so good for them.



#540 Slidemaster

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Posted 21 July 2021 - 06:33 PM

I genuinely have no idea how to explain the O's draft. They are likely using their savings on nobody.




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