6241 replies to this topic

[Old Man]

Trump to issue ~100 pardons on his way out the door...

 

https://www.cnn.com/...cted/index.html

Pretty sure OBama did over 100 pardons and a ton of clemency in his last days. His total record while in office appears to be 212 pardons and almost 1,600 clemencies.

 

Pretty normal occurrence when a POTUS leaves, they do this.

[mweb08]

Pretty sure OBama did over 100 pardons and a ton of clemency in his last days. His total record while in office appears to be 212 pardons and almost 1,600 clemencies.

 

Pretty normal occurrence when a POTUS leaves, they do this.

 

If a president is issuing a bunch of pardons / clemencies for people that have been overly punished for non violent drug offenses for instance, then great! If they're doing them for people that were involved in crimes committed by and/or for the administration itself, then not so good. 

[Old Man]

If a president is issuing a bunch of pardons / clemencies for people that have been overly punished for non violent drug offenses for instance, then great! If they're doing them for people that were involved in crimes committed by and/or for the administration itself, then not so good. 

We shall see once that list is released. Lil Wayne is rumored to be on that list and that was a handgun off a private plane at an airport or something like that.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Pretty sure OBama did over 100 pardons and a ton of clemency in his last days. His total record while in office appears to be 212 pardons and almost 1,600 clemencies.

 

Pretty normal occurrence when a POTUS leaves, they do this.

How many of them were white rich guys who absolutely belong in prison?

[Old Man]

How many of them were white rich guys who absolutely belong in prison?

Sounds like a very racist and bigot remark?

[mweb08]

We shall see once that list is released. Lil Wayne is rumored to be on that list and that was a handgun off a private plane at an airport or something like that.

He doesn't actually have to release all the names of the beneficiaries.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Sounds like a very racist and bigot remark?

Lol. Get your ears checked then.

God this place has gotten freaking dumb.

[Old Man]

Lol. Get your ears checked then.

God this place has gotten freaking dumb.

[JeremyStrain]

Pretty sure OBama did over 100 pardons and a ton of clemency in his last days. His total record while in office appears to be 212 pardons and almost 1,600 clemencies.

 

Pretty normal occurrence when a POTUS leaves, they do this.

Yeah but as mentioned, it really depends on the scope of the crimes here. You can't judge it in a vacuum. Like Weber mentioned, are we talking non-violent crimes that may have been overprosecuted? Like how many people are on the GOV dime for marijuana crimes that aren't even illegal today?

 

Much like Al Capone, sometimes, a lesser crime is used to put someone away that they just want to put away.

 

OR are we talking about pardoning people arrested in the Capitol seige, and rich, guys that either paid for it, or are buddies of his?

 

Gotta look at the whole picture before you can judge it, and we BOTH know this smarmy guy doesn't do anything if he isn't getting something out of it. When people are going to jail after being investigated for dealings tied to YOU, you can't just go getting them out scott free. Conflict of interest and whatnot.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Apparently Mayor Pugh has asked him for a pardon.

 

Former Baltimore Mayor Catherine Pugh among those seeking clemency from President Trump - Baltimore Sun

[Old Man]

Yeah but as mentioned, it really depends on the scope of the crimes here. You can't judge it in a vacuum. Like Weber mentioned, are we talking non-violent crimes that may have been overprosecuted? Like how many people are on the GOV dime for marijuana crimes that aren't even illegal today?

 

Much like Al Capone, sometimes, a lesser crime is used to put someone away that they just want to put away.

 

OR are we talking about pardoning people arrested in the Capitol seige, and rich, guys that either paid for it, or are buddies of his?

 

Gotta look at the whole picture before you can judge it, and we BOTH know this smarmy guy doesn't do anything if he isn't getting something out of it. When people are going to jail after being investigated for dealings tied to YOU, you can't just go getting them out scott free. Conflict of interest and whatnot.

We have to wait to see who gets pardon before we hang the guy, thats my point. Whole lot of what ifs, at this point.

[mweb08]

We have to wait to see who gets pardon before we hang the guy, thats my point. Whole lot of what ifs, at this point.

There's already been plenty of awful pardons from him, so not much reason for optimism.

Plus again, he doesn't have to publicize them all. For instance, he can have pardons for people with the last name Trump for instance, and just have those filed away in case the time comes.

https://thehill.com/...impression=true

[mweb08]

This article that I used in school titled Getting the Civil War Right is very relevant to what happened at the Capital Building, why Trump got elected, etc: Getting the Civil War Right | Teaching Tolerance

 

Related: Trump's Maga insurrectionists were perverse US civil war re-enactors | US Capitol breach | The Guardian

 

I had previously said this:

 

I know many don't feel comfortable talking about race. I know many feel attacked and/or get offended when things they have said or supported are said to be racist. I know some don't think it's that big of an issue. I know some feel hopeless in creating positive change. Lastly, I know the issue of racism and race in America can be difficult to really understand since it has such tremendous depth and complexity.

All of those impediments to change are understandable to an extent.

However, when it comes to dealing with racism, that line ("You can always do more in retrospect") applies to all of us.

We need to do so much better on this matter. We need to because it's plainly and simply the right thing to do.

Beyond that, we need to because seriously grappling with this and then tackling racism head on will make this country so much better for all people. We also need to because it is a critical step in preventing what happened last Wednesday, what happened the past four years, and what happened in the backlash to an African American president.

We have not shown that we are better than this either. Not now or in the past. All of that immorality and ugliness is reflective of who we are as a country, but it doesn't have to be. Be part of the change you wish to see.

 

Well an easy way to be a part of a positive change that we should all wish to see would be to further learn and analyze the history that directly ties to what we're seeing today. The history of white supremacy in America.

 

If we do so, we will for instance stop defending the South in the Civil War as well as the Confederate flag and monuments against correct claims of racism. That would be a small, but meaningful step towards no longer fostering an environment that is prone to white supremacy and general divisiveness in America.

 

If we can't agree about rather clear history, it makes it difficult to even collectively frame conversations dealing with the related issues of today.

[Old Man]

Related: Trump's Maga insurrectionists were perverse US civil war re-enactors | US Capitol breach | The Guardian

 

I had previously said this:

 

 

Well an easy way to be a part of a positive change that we should all wish to see would be to further learn and analyze the history that directly ties to what we're seeing today. The history of white supremacy in America.

 

If we do so, we will for instance stop defending the South in the Civil War as well as the Confederate flag and monuments against correct claims of racism. That would be a small, but meaningful step towards no longer fostering an environment that is prone to white supremacy and general divisiveness in America.

 

If we can't agree about rather clear history, it makes it difficult to even collectively frame conversations dealing with the related issues of today.

How about we drop the color adjective out of our discussions. Either you are a POS or your not?

 

The pigmentation of your skin, should not define who you are, as a person.

[mweb08]

How about we drop the color adjective out of our discussions. Either you are a POS or your not?

 

The pigmentation of your skin, should not define who you are, as a person.

 

As soon as we move past white supremacy as a country I will be thrilled to leave it out of discussion. Unfortunately, it has been incredibly pervasive throughout the history of America, and it directly ties to the presidency of Trump and the attack on the Capitol.

 

I do not think burying our heads in the sand is an approach that will help this matter. In fact, I think that is what has generally been done in teaching the history of the country, which has led to a lot of ignorance of the history of white supremacy and its impact. This has had a significant impact on how that subject and related matters are discussed and acted upon today. It is paramount to understanding American history, politics, and present day inequality among groups in our society. 

[Old Man]

As soon as we move past white supremacy as a country I will be thrilled to leave it out of discussion. Unfortunately, it has been incredibly pervasive throughout the history of America, and it directly ties to the presidency of Trump and the attack on the Capitol.

 

I do not think burying our heads in the sand is an approach that will help this matter. In fact, I think that is what has generally been done in teaching the history of the country, which has led to a lot of ignorance of the history of white supremacy and its impact. This has had a significant impact on how that subject and related matters are discussed and acted upon today. It is paramount to understanding American history, politics, and present day inequality among groups in our society. 

Not every idiot involved last week was Trump supporters:

Brian M. Lemley Jr., 33, a former United States Army cavalry scout from Elkton, Md., was charged along with him. Among other things, the two men built a functioning assault rifle from a kit that they intended to use in Richmond, court documents said.

Mr. Spear has said repeatedly that the United States is doomed because of its large and growing minority population. He and other members of the Base have also criticized President Trump.

“Trump is a false prophet, Israel-first fraud,” Mr. Lemley was quoted as saying at one point, adding later, “The Holocaust is fake news.”

I think we give them way too much attention.

 

Just like before when I was growing up, not every White man was a closet KKK member and was a racist.

 

The actual numbers are small in comparison to the total number of white population.

 

BTW according to a list of 21 Hate Groups in Maryland, there was a many non white movements listed.

 

Plenty of hate spreading around that needs to be stopped.

 

I do not believe we need to be in denial or ignorant of the fact that there is hate.

 

But. much like the playground bully, ignore it, tells to take the fuel away for them to sprawl their hate. Feeding into it, just allows them to keep trolling on.

 

Let the law enforcement agencies keep track of them and shut them down when they step outside the law.

[mweb08]

Not every idiot involved last week was Trump supporters:

I think we give them way too much attention.

 

Just like before when I was growing up, not every White man was a closet KKK member and was a racist.

 

The actual numbers are small in comparison to the total number of white population.

 

BTW according to a list of 21 Hate Groups in Maryland, there was a many non white movements listed.

 

Plenty of hate spreading around that needs to be stopped.

 

I do not believe we need to be in denial or ignorant of the fact that there is hate.

 

But. much like the playground bully, ignore it, tells to take the fuel away for them to sprawl their hate. Feeding into it, just allows them to keep trolling on.

 

Let the law enforcement agencies keep track of them and shut them down when they step outside the law.

 

Just about all of the people there were Trump supporters. They also were white supremacists by and large.

 

Anyways...

 

I think you are right that full on KKK, Nazi level types are a relatively small portion of the white population. Groups like the Proud Boys seem to be on the rise though, but I do not have data to support that.

 

However, a significant amount of white people help foster an environment for continued white supremacy.

 

They do so in the following ways:

- with their voting

- by trying to tell history in a more favorable way to whites (their support / defense of the Confederacy for example)

- by equating Black Lives Matter to white supremacists ("both sides")

- with their support of Blue Lives Matter and their general acceptance of the unequal treatment that has always existed in our justice system

- with their refusal to stand up to people saying and doing racist things

- with their constant diminishment of the accrued impact of racism over time

- by blaming African Americans as a group for having inferior collective outcomes when it comes to wealth and incarceration in America (it's not a matter of personal responsibility when we're talking about groups of millions of people that have had very different circumstances in their lives as well as their ancestors lives)

- by refusing to look in the mirror to evaluate their role in white supremacy

 

There's more to that, but I think that gets the point across, which is that we did not get to this point in America just due to a small segment of the population being truly awful. 

 

It was good to see so many white people get onboard with the Black Lives Matter Movement though this past year.

 

Since yesterday was MLK Day and this very much relates:

 

https://twitter.com/...5277132807?s=20

 

“I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season.”

[Old Man]

Just about all of the people there were Trump supporters. They also were white supremacists by and large.

 

Anyways...

 

I think you are right that full on KKK, Nazi level types are a relatively small portion of the white population. Groups like the Proud Boys seem to be on the rise though, but I do not have data to support that.

Proud Boys are on the list of 21 hate groups that Md is watching, so I suspect that is your data to support that.

 

My one comment about voting.

 

Biden is not the squeaky clean individual, he tries to portray.

 

How he gets away with that awful racist 72 speech that is on youtube, is beyond me?

 

There are many platform agenda items that people disagree with Biden on, and most of them are politically and not color based.

[mweb08]

Proud Boys are on the list of 21 hate groups that Md is watching, so I suspect that is your data to support that.

 

My one comment about voting.

 

Biden is not the squeaky clean individual, he tries to portray.

 

How he gets away with that awful racist 72 speech that is on youtube, is beyond me?

 

There are many platform agenda items that people disagree with Biden on, and most of them are politically and not color based.

 

I am not trying to get into a discussion about Biden. I am not a big fan and I agree that he has issues with racism in his past as well (which goes to my point about how pervasive racism is and has been in America), but I think it's pretty clear which of the two presidential candidates are currently better when it relates to racism. 

 

People can change, and that's what I am hoping for when it comes to this matter, especially among those that generally believe racism to be wrong, but still help foster an environment for white supremacy in some of the ways I just listed. 

[The Epic]

How he gets away with that awful racist 72 speech that is on youtube, is beyond me?

 

There are many platform agenda items that people disagree with Biden on, and most of them are politically and not color based.

 

I'm getting crushed today at work, but two things:

 

1) He "gets away" with things because there's a literal white supremacist in the White House. People look at things in degrees in that manner. While a whole slew of things in his past would be considered disqualifying by certain people once unearthed, the reason that so many people came out in support of him is...there's a literal white supremacist in the White House. Same reason that he won the primary, in spite of his flaws. Black people overwhelmingly voted for him out of pure pragmatism, knowing that the chances of this country electing anybody more liberal than Biden was...not SMALL, per se, but decreased. And people just wanted to make sure Trump was gone, because THERE'S A...ok, let me stop.

 

2) I think that if you peel back the onion, a lot of those political stances are color-based. Ultimately most of them are; it's hard to take race out of a lot of political discussions, because changes in rules help/hurt areas of color to much, much different scales. Doesn't mean that these rules are racist, but...let's be real, some of them are.