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Monuments, Statues, More


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#61 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:31 PM

Yeah, it's confusing why political correctness has become a topic in response to getting rid of statues celebrating the confederacy. That's a big and odd leap to make.

I at least get where the erasing history argument comes from even if it's very misguided.
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#62 The Epic

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:39 PM

Brilliant.

 

It's been making the rounds on Twitter all day. As it should. 



#63 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:40 PM

It's been making the rounds on Twitter all day. As it should. 

I don't want to go too far off course and get this thread locked, so I'll tone down how I say this, but that's the kind of thing our President should be saying right now instead of doing what he's doing.


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#64 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:43 PM

If history sucks, why do people care if it's "erased"?

It doesn't mean you can't learn about it and learn from it but why do symbols have to remain?

And in reverse, why do people feel they must come down. Someone made a point earlier that a black person shouldn't have to walk down the street and see a confederate statue. I think that's an extremely fair thing to say.

Otoh, why can't that be used as a tool to show our society that men like that are divisive and that we need to stand against those ideologies and be united?

In other words, and this is always my big problem with all of these social issues, when is enough enough and who determines that?

A group of drunk rednecks have a rally and all of a sudden, these things are bad? Are you serious? Antoine was dead on with his few lines about that, so I won't elaborate on his point.

So, because of that, these statues are now bad? Does that mean we should thank the assholes who did the rally? Is this like when blm riots and loots...that it's ok to do that because it "gets people talking"? Is this the same thing? A violent protest that not only got people talking but is resulting in statues being torn down?

Again, when is enough enough?

Btw, the answer isn't, well if you think they should remain, you are a racist. Every time I hear that, I want to punch the dipshit saying it in the throat.

#65 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:58 PM

These statues aren't suddenly bad, they've always been bad and they have been disliked by many throughout their existences. However, the national/media/non African American attention to and caring about these monuments obviously rises and wanes based on various factors.

This is hardly a new story though, this topic has had a spotlight on it several times in recent years. For example, when New Orleans decided to take down their statues.

And that speech from New Orleans' mayor does a great job of explaining why these statues should come down.

#66 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:01 PM

It is a suddenly new national topic that actually has traction.

That's what I mean and since I referenced Antoine and his point, obviously I was recognizing that.

#67 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:01 PM

My very basic position on monuments, is that you shouldn't celebrate people who have little to no reason to be celebrated (and in these cases should be vilified more so than celebrated).

#68 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:03 PM

It's been a huge topic as recently as late Spring. It comes and goes.

You know a great way to avoid this from continually being a big story... take them down.

#69 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:10 PM

It's been a huge topic as recently as late Spring. It comes and goes. You know a great way to avoid this from continually being a big story... take them down.


What you else should be taken down? What should be put in its place? Why should what people want in its place be allowed? Who should determine this?

I just saw a poll on twitter that said 62% of the country thinks the statues should stay. If that is an actual representative poll of this country, does that mean they should stay?

Fwiw, in dubious of any poll, just asking a general question if the majority believe they should stay, why take them down?

#70 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:13 PM

What you else should be taken down? What should be put in its place? Why should what people want in its place be allowed? Who should determine this?

I just saw a poll on twitter that said 62% of the country thinks the statues should stay. If that is an actual representative poll of this country, does that mean they should stay?

Fwiw, in dubious of any poll, just asking a general question if the majority believe they should stay, why take them down?

 

Because these are cities where the statues are standing. And the people who live there and are in charge should be the ones who decide whether or not they're taken down. Was it a twitter poll of the people who live in Baltimore/Charlottesville/Any other town where the statues are standing?

 

Who cares what someone in Alabama thinks about a statue in VA or MD? Why should their opinion matter?


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#71 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:18 PM

Ok and what if a MD poll is done and the majority say to keep them up.

Should they still be taken down?

#72 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:20 PM

Ok and what if a MD poll is done and the majority say to keep them up.

Should they still be taken down?

It would have to be a Baltimore City poll, and you know as well as I do how that poll would go.


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#73 The Epic

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:27 PM

If history sucks, why do people care if it's "erased"?

It doesn't mean you can't learn about it and learn from it but why do symbols have to remain?

And in reverse, why do people feel they must come down. Someone made a point earlier that a black person shouldn't have to walk down the street and see a confederate statue. I think that's an extremely fair thing to say.

Otoh, why can't that be used as a tool to show our society that men like that are divisive and that we need to stand against those ideologies and be united?

In other words, and this is always my big problem with all of these social issues, when is enough enough and who determines that?

A group of drunk rednecks have a rally and all of a sudden, these things are bad? Are you serious? Antoine was dead on with his few lines about that, so I won't elaborate on his point.

So, because of that, these statues are now bad? Does that mean we should thank the assholes who did the rally? Is this like when blm riots and loots...that it's ok to do that because it "gets people talking"? Is this the same thing? A violent protest that not only got people talking but is resulting in statues being torn down?

Again, when is enough enough?

Btw, the answer isn't, well if you think they should remain, you are a racist. Every time I hear that, I want to punch the dipshit saying it in the throat.

 

It’s not being erased. History isn’t going away. Books, internet, museums, school.

 

It’s just not being glorified. That’s the problem.

 

As an addendum, BLM wasn’t rioting and looting. But yes, it got people talking. And yes, there’s progress on the horizon as a result of a really dark day in our city’s history. And I really don’t want to equate the two here, because, here, someone actually got killed. But..yeah, man, the actions were a direct result of the violence at that protest. And believe me, we’ll all remember that without the need for a statue. I'm not saying it's OK. I'm saying that it's something positive that can be taken from the situation. 

 

I think I said this already, but…I’m just glad white people care now. Whether they didn’t before, whether it’s flavor-of-the-month, whatever. It’s getting things done NOW that should have been done ages ago, and I’m cool with that.

 

If it was just black people shouting, they, collectively, could be ignored with little effort, and nothing would get done. It’s a lot easier for a white person to go a while without talking to a black person, than the other way around, believe me. It’s up to other people to fill in that gap, and unfortunately, there’s been justifiable hesitation to do that.



#74 bnickle

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:28 PM


It would have to be a Baltimore City poll, and you know as well as I do how that poll would go.

Isn't that cute. A liberal wants the decision taken away from the big bad state and given to the smaller, individual communities and towns. But hey, sign me up.

#75 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:29 PM

I don't care about any poll. Do what's right.


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#76 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:32 PM

It would have to be a Baltimore City poll, and you know as well as I do how that poll would go.

So what you are saying is the only people who should get to vote are the people who are offended.

Is that all of these social issues should be done?

Should we only poll gays/trannies for lbgt issues too?

#77 bnickle

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:33 PM


I don't care about any poll. Do what's right.

And this is where shit gets dangerous. Whats right by you isnt right by everybody. Let it be known that I have no problem with these statues being removed but this is the kind of mindset that has this country so fucked up.

#78 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:33 PM

I don't care about any poll. Do what's right.

 

A nice summary in 9 words.  Shouldn't be more difficult than this.



#79 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:34 PM

I don't care about any poll. Do what's right.


And how are we determining what's right? Because you say so?

My dad had a good friend who is perhaps the largest collector of African American memorabilia in the world. He is a black guy who buys KKk stuff, nazi memorabilia, etc..I asked him years ago why he would want that and he told me it was because you don't ignore history.

Now, I don't know how he would feel on this topic (although I would like to know) but there is likely a segment of the black community that believes they should stay for that reason.

Does that make them wrong?

#80 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:37 PM

Isn't that cute. A liberal wants the decision taken away from the big bad state and given to the smaller, individual communities and towns. But hey, sign me up.

Huh?

 

BTW, Hogan is in support of moving the Taney statue.


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