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Monuments, Statues, More


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#81 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:37 PM

Taking down a statue is not ignoring history.

Ignoring history would be stupid.

It's simply not honoring people (at-least in public spaces) who attempted to leave the US (and of course what they stood for).

If people on private property want to honor those  aholes, good for them I guess.



#82 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:38 PM

So what you are saying is the only people who should get to vote are the people who are offended.

Is that all of these social issues should be done?

Should we only poll gays/trannies for lbgt issues too?

 

I am saying to poll the people who live in the areas around these statues.

 

Go read the LA mayor's speech and see if you come back and feel the same.


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#83 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:38 PM

What if they wanted to take it further and stop teaching the civil war in schools?

#84 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:39 PM

And this is where shit gets dangerous. Whats right by you isnt right by everybody. Let it be known that I have no problem with these statues being removed but this is the kind of mindset that has this country so fucked up.

 

Taking down monuments to pro-slavery white dudes should be right for everybody.


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#85 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:39 PM

I am saying to poll the people who live in the areas around these statues.
 
Go read the LA mayor's speech and see if you come back and feel the same.


I don't give a damn about the speech of anyone.

My point and question is still the same...when is enough enough and how does that get determined?

#86 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:39 PM

What if they wanted to take it further and stop teaching the civil war in schools?

 

That would never happen.


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#87 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:40 PM

It's not just because I say so, it's because it should be blatantly obvious to anyone who is historically literate on the topic.

 

That is unless they have some intellectual argument such as saying they should remain, but actually tell the real truth about them, and not some bland neutral portrayal, but one that tells it like it is, in order words, dishonoring the confederacy and these men. 



#88 The Epic

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:40 PM

A nice summary in 9 words.  Shouldn't be more difficult than this.

 

Like Nickle said...it's a LOT tougher than that. The world don't move to the beat of just one druuuuuuum...



#89 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:40 PM

I don't give a damn about the speech of anyone.

My point and question is still the same...when is enough enough and how does that get determined?

I get the argument but this isnt the hill to die on fighting that battle.


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#90 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:41 PM

What if they wanted to take it further and stop teaching the civil war in schools?


Why would that happen? What's the correlation?



#91 The Epic

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:44 PM

Taking down monuments to traitors should be seen as right for everyone, however. 



#92 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:45 PM

It would be interesting to see a reaction to the mayor's speech from those that are on the other side.

 

Or how would you guys feel about monuments to Hitler and Nazism in Germany, as well as Nazi flags flying throughout the country? The same argument that is being used here can be applied to Germany, except they were wise and embarrassed enough to not allow that shortly after WWII. Or was that a mistake?



#93 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:45 PM


Why would that happen? What's the correlation?

 

There is no correlation. 



#94 The Epic

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:47 PM

Like…look at it this way. Let’s say that these statues didn’t exist, ever (and like Mike said, we can have a long discussion on why they actually exist). If a group of people suddenly came out of the blue and requested a Robert E. Lee statue, or a Taney statue, what would be their justification? Why would they care? Why would they be received differently than the person that wanted a White Student Union at Towson?  

 

I don't think this has been addressed yet. Can someone help me out on this?



#95 Cisc-O's

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:48 PM

I don't give a damn about the speech of anyone.

My point and question is still the same...when is enough enough and how does that get determined?

Its case by case.  There is not one easy answer.  People who wanted to topple the USA should not have monuments.  This is akin to Ravens putting up a Kerry Collins statue for the super bowl we won against him.  Sounds pretty dumb huh? 


<p>I am pretty sure Shack is thinking of PBR.

#96 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:49 PM

I don't think this has been addressed yet. Can someone help me out on this?

 

It would go over about as well as a proposed Bill Cosby statue.



#97 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:50 PM

There is no correlation. 

 

Well... I happen to agree with you, but am interested to see the point Rob is attempting to make there.

I don't get it.

We're talking about removing statues from people who wanted to leave the US, and what they stood for.

It's not a white-washing of history.  It's simply not honoring the worst of our history on public grounds.

The idea that people would want to stop teaching the Civil War seems illogical.  (The only people that might are the people who marched through Charlottesville... those trying to pretend the South didn't lose, and the past 152 years haven't occurred.)

 


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#98 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

As far as where does it stop? Well I don't know and legitimate discussions can be had on that matter, but it shouldn't be hard to have a law banishing monuments, flags, etc celebrating a 4 or so year period where a portion of the country tried to leave the union, causing the bloodiest span in our history, and did so because they wanted to continue to enslave people. 

 

I think that should be comfortably over wherever the line is placed. 



#99 SportsGuy

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

That would never happen.


Why not?


People want a statue torn down because it glorifies and remembers that person. Putting them in text books, teaching it across your school time and doing it all over the country does the same thing. You better believe there are people offended by that.

So..again, when is enough enough? When you do one thing, who says it doesn't lead to another and then another. When and where does it stop?

#100 mweb08

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:53 PM

Like…look at it this way. Let’s say that these statues didn’t exist, ever (and like Mike said, we can have a long discussion on why they actually exist). If a group of people suddenly came out of the blue and requested a Robert E. Lee statue, or a Taney statue, what would be their justification? Why would they care? Why would they be received differently than the person that wanted a White Student Union at Towson? 

 

I don't think this has been addressed yet. Can someone help me out on this?

 

There wouldn't be any reasonable justification. 

 

You know that. ;)


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