86 replies to this topic

[Chris B]

So, then are we going with the theory that there were basically 2 Caps...one who was fighting and was frozen and one who went under cover, got married, etc...?

That’s one of the theories I read.

Yeah that’s where it gets a bit dicey and where the theories are coming about. The time travel stuff I thought was pretty streamlined and easily understood until the last five minutes or so with the Cap reveal.

[SportsGuy]

Btw, we may get more answers about what happened to Cap in the Falcon/Winter Soldier show.

Also, considering how close Bucky and Cap were, why wasn’t he the “new CA”? Is that because of all the shit Bucky did in the past? Not a good look for him to have that “title”?

[SportsGuy]

Yeah that’s where it gets a bit dicey and where the theories are coming about. The time travel stuff I thought was pretty streamlined and easily understood until the last five minutes or so with the Cap reveal.

Agreed.

Again, I don’t think it’s a big deal but I’m curious how it’s explained. I don’t think that is what happens in the comics?

[SportsGuy]

Btw, it sucks that there won’t be any Tony Stark in the Spider-Man movies.

That was a reason I didn’t think he would be the one to go.

[weird-O]

Agreed.

Again, I don’t think it’s a big deal but I’m curious how it’s explained. I don’t think that is what happens in the comics?

My take away, is that Cap went back to return the stones. But instead of coming right back, he went to the 40's and lived a full life with Agent Carter. Then he comes back to let them know the stones were returned. He said something to Falcon, referring to something Stark said in his video message that they watched at the funeral. Something to do with enjoying your life? 

 

In my mind, he grows old with Carter, she passes away before him, then he returns to the present. And that's how he's an old man. 

[weird-O]

The Gamora thing was interesting. I know Gunn had written the GotG 3 script a year or so ago. I assume he knew how EndGame would wrap up, and wrote #3 to pick up with the search for Gamora. In the closing credits of GotG 2, we see Ayesha looking at an Iron Maiden type thing, and says, "I think I'll call him Adam". Presumably that will be Adam Warlock, and he'll be the bad guy. His story involves Thor, so it makes sense that Thor would be in the 3rd movie. Marvel Studios doesn't strictly follow the comics, so anything goes, but it seems like they're setting up that story. 

[Nigel Tufnel]

My take away, is that Cap went back to return the stones. But instead of coming right back, he went to the 40's and lived a full life with Agent Carter. Then he comes back to let them know the stones were returned. He said something to Falcon, referring to something Stark said in his video message that they watched at the funeral. Something to do with enjoying your life? 

 

In my mind, he grows old with Carter, she passes away before him, then he returns to the present. And that's how he's an old man. 

 

Well, right, that's obviously what happened, except that Cap probably didn't time travel forward after Peggy died...  I think he just waited around for 7-8 years.  That's why he was sitting on the bench instead of reappearing on the platform.

 

But I think Rob's question was about whether this wipes out Cap getting frozen in ice and everything he did in the MCU...  I don't think it does - I think there were two of him, just like there were two Hulks when they went back to 2012, but thinking about time travel always makes my head hurt.

[Chris B]

It's certainly not fair to compare but given that both stories were basically wrapped up after an 8-10 year period of content and coincided on what many considered to be one of the biggest weekends of anticipation in television/cinematic history, I thought the Russo Brothers did a much better job with their Endgame finale than Benioff and Weiss did with their "White Walker finale" in S8E3 last night.

[JeremyStrain]

Well, right, that's obviously what happened, except that Cap probably didn't time travel forward after Peggy died...  I think he just waited around for 7-8 years.  That's why he was sitting on the bench instead of reappearing on the platform.

 

But I think Rob's question was about whether this wipes out Cap getting frozen in ice and everything he did in the MCU...  I don't think it does - I think there were two of him, just like there were two Hulks when they went back to 2012, but thinking about time travel always makes my head hurt.

 

Yeah that's what he did. He was around 35-40 during Endgame, so going back to 1970 gave him another 55 ish years, so puts him around 90-95. The serum will make him live a little longer than most people so that's about right.

 

As for the 2nd Cap, yeah there are two. There's the one that thaws out, and then joins the Avengers which keeps the original timeline together, and then him, who is just Steve Rogers, and isn't doing any Cap stuff as he lives out his life with Peggy. He'd be like 65-70 when things start kicking off with the superhero stuff, so he'd be a little too old to be in the game anyway.

 

If he had gone back to WW2 and stopped himself from crashing the plane, then yeah it would have messed with the ice thing, but he's just a little tiny addition to the timeline, not a whole extra branch of one.

[weird-O]

Well, right, that's obviously what happened, except that Cap probably didn't time travel forward after Peggy died...  I think he just waited around for 7-8 years.  That's why he was sitting on the bench instead of reappearing on the platform.

 

But I think Rob's question was about whether this wipes out Cap getting frozen in ice and everything he did in the MCU...  I don't think it does - I think there were two of him, just like there were two Hulks when they went back to 2012, but thinking about time travel always makes my head hurt.

I agree with you, that scenario would mean there were 2 Caps in the past. Undoing Cap's history, as we know it through the movies, would wreck everything. 

[weird-O]

Something that confused me was how Nebula could kill her 2014 self, and not vanish, like in Looper. I read an article that said they explained it earlier in the film, when they were talking about just going back and killing baby Thanos. Bruce explained why that wouldn't work. But by the end of the movie, I didn't remember exactly how he broke it down. 

[SportsGuy]

Oh and how did Cap all of a sudden become "worthy" to be able to use the hammer?

[Chris B]

Oh and how did Cap all of a sudden become "worthy" to be able to use the hammer?

 

I think he's always been worthy. If you recall from Age of Ultron, every Avenger tries to pick up the hammer at their party before Ultron makes his introduction. The hammer moves slightly when Cap tries to pull it, which stuns Thor. 

 

Either Cap could have fully picked it up then (and just chose not to given the stakes) or perhaps an experience or action after the AOU movie allowed him to be worthy: perhaps doing "whatever it takes" to undo the snap. (I personally like the first theory more.)

[SportsGuy]

I think he's always been worthy. If you recall from Age of Ultron, every Avenger tries to pick up the hammer at their party before Ultron makes his introduction. The hammer moves slightly when Cap tries to pull it, which stuns Thor. 

 

Either Cap could have fully picked it up then (and just chose not to given the stakes) or perhaps an experience or action after the AOU movie allowed him to be worthy: perhaps doing "whatever it takes" to undo the snap. (I personally like the first theory more.)

I don't think he consciously in that movie didn't pick it up.  That doesn't make much sense to me.  He tried hard to pick it up.

 

I wonder if the idea that the hammer was destroyed and then they went back in time to essentially get the second hammer meant it wasn't as "picky" with who picked it up.

[JeremyStrain]

Oh and how did Cap all of a sudden become "worthy" to be able to use the hammer?

 

He always has been. It wouldn't have budged for him back in Ultron if he wasn't. There's zero wiggle room with that hammer. Either it is planted like the heaviest thing in the universe, or it'll work for you. It may have been that he was still earning it, and had to work harder back then, like it was like ehhhh, I mean yeeeeeah you're worthy I guess, but show me more.

 

Thor goes through a period where he can't wield it. I actually thought that might happen here when they went with needs to eat a salad Thor. He has this whole arc where he has to earn it back, and while he is unworthy, it goes to Jane Foster who becomes the new Thor for a while.

[SportsGuy]

Oh and how did Cap all of a sudden become "worthy" to be able to use the hammer?

https://www.ign.com/...mjolnir-endgame

[BobPhelan]

Predictably I loved it. I'll have to see it again soon because my three year old had to make three trips to the bathroom but I'm just glad he made it all the way through.

 

So many awesome moments. Goosebumps. Emotion. Great character moments. Three major deaths (or essentially with Cap) that all felt like real deaths.

 

Love short hair Captain Marvel. I'm excited for the future of the MCU with supposedly more team ups a la Thor Ragnarok instead of mini seasons leading up to a big event movie. Bring on mutants and the Fantastic Four.

 

Like Chris said, a lot to process. Need to listen to hours of podcasts and sleep on it, see it again, etc.

[BobPhelan]

I think that's the plot of Guardians 3, Peter hunting for the 2014 version of Gamora, and then it'll be interesting to see if she is the big bad guy for the whole movie. Looking like Thor will be in it too, so I feel like they have to have a much tougher baddie to go after.

 

Adam Warlock.

 

Watch, Gamora will fall in love with a back in shape Thor this time around.

[BobPhelan]

The only thing I really didn’t like was fat Thor. It was effective as a running joke and I don’t mind that he let himself go it just wasn’t tonally consistent with his character from Infinity War. Everyone else had great sincere moments and he was the guy that seemed most effected by everything that happened. Hope that gets rectified moving forward.

Best moments for me have to be “Avengers Assemble!” and when we realize Cap is worthy of wielding Mjolnir.

[Chris B]

https://www.reddit.c..._at_the_end_of/

This is interesting