151 replies to this topic

[dude]

Cobb serves zero purpose for this team.

 

You aren't going to get anything significant in return for him.  Now, tomorrow or next year.

 

You get rid of as much of the contract as you can.

 

You don't need to trade potentially good players to dump salary (like some teams might consider based on financial limitations of certain contracts).  For example, I'm not adding DL Hall to a deal to move salary now or later (even if he's terrible and released).

 

...but they've given no indication about caring about next year,so you still be smart and get rid of as much of the contract as you can.

 

Like I posted in the Game Thread.

 

Boston: Cobb, McKenna and 7.5M (2.5M this year, 5 M next year) for Danny Diaz and 2 other ('18, '19 draft or IFA types)

[BSLChrisStoner]

Cobb serves zero purpose for this team.

 

You aren't going to get anything significant in return for him.  Now, tomorrow or next year.

 

You get rid of as much of the contract as you can.

 

You don't need to trade potentially good players to dump salary (like some teams might consider based on financial limitations of certain contracts).  For example, I'm not adding DL Hall to a deal to move salary now or later (even if he's terrible and released).

 

...but they've given no indication about caring about next year,so you still be smart and get rid of as much of the contract as you can.

 

Like I posted in the Game Thread.

 

Boston: Cobb, McKenna and 7.5M (2.5M this year, 5 M next year) for Danny Diaz and 2 other ('18, '19 draft or IFA types)

You've established payroll flexibility for the coming years already. His salary means nothing. 

Reasonably you could have 3 of these 6 - Akin, Kremer, Baumann,  Lowther, Zimmermann, and Wells - in the rotation with Means next year. 

I see no reason why you couldn't have Cobb with them, and disagree completely that those young arms wouldn't benefit by him being around. 

Also, it's not overly realistic to believe Cobb is going to fully build back his value by the trade deadline this year.
He could build further by July 21.  

Again, someone wants to give you control and talent... sure, I'll listen. 

Do I need to dump his salary for Boston's 24th best prospect (albeit young, and with two other young guys)? No, I don't.

[SportsGuy]

Totally disagree that you can’t get anything good for Cobb at any point in the future.

I don’t think you would get much for him this year but the offseason or the trade deadline next year, he possibly could bring back a decent piece or 2.

[SportsGuy]

Btw...Cobb has been talked about as someone that is a great leader to younger pitchers. So yes, he serves a purpose.

[dude]

Btw...Cobb has been talked about as someone that is a great leader to younger pitchers. So yes, he serves a purpose.

You'd need to describe to me what his positive impact has been the last 2 years. I know we read about that (his leadership) at one point, but we've posted some of the worst ERAs in the League and Team history. That's clearly not his fault because the Talent has generally been lacking...but we had him in 2018 with Bundy and Gausman.

...and if you think his Leadership is really special for the development of this group, then you could probably leverage some accountability for the disaster that his contract has been and work a modest couple of years and rebuild the contract however works best and allow him to Lead that next group.

Paying out his contract thru the end of a non-competitive 2021 season would be the worst possible outcome for this team.

He's not part of winning now or later and you have to account for his pay through 2032. Adley Rutschman will be in the 4th year of his FA contract when they're done paying him.

[SportsGuy]

Well he hasn’t been here and most of the young pitching they would be bringing up hasn’t been ready yet.

But it should be here later this year and next year.

It’s just wrong to say he doesn’t serve a purpose for multiple reasons and this is one of them.

[dude]

Totally disagree that you can’t get anything good for Cobb at any point in the future.

I don’t think you would get much for him this year but the offseason or the trade deadline next year, he possibly could bring back a decent piece or 2.

 

I utterly disagree.  He's pretty much done nothing since 2014.  He had a good 2017 season but he's been an abyss outside of that.  I just don't see a reason for a team to attack him hard with prospects.

 

2 decent prospects?  Bundy would have more value than 99% of the Cobb scenarios...Cashner was pitching great and we got nothing.  Villar was a 4 WAR player and they got nothing. 

 

If he shows something, I think he could be traded based on cost risk only, but I seriously doubt there's prospect scenario we'd care about.

 

....but then you described his Leadership value....so you think his Leadership value is 2 decent prospects.  You apparently don't value his Leadership that much.

 

He gives up 7 runs in any start, his fault or not, and his value is going back to 'eat the whole thing'.

[BSLChrisStoner]

His salary means nothing. If you aren't getting talent back, zero reason to move him.

[dude]

It’s just wrong to say he doesn’t serve a purpose for multiple reasons and this is one of them.

 

He serves no purpose in winning in any season....under every current, reasonable expectation.

 

Are you suggesting we could couldn't find a "Jose Iglesias" type pitcher next year for only the 2021 season?  Why would it have to be Cobb?

Edited by dude, 25 July 2020 - 10:50 PM.

[BSLChrisStoner]

He serves no purpose in winning in any season....under every current, reasonable expectation.

Are you suggesting we could find a "Jose Iglesias" type pitcher next year for only the 2021 season? Why would it have to be Cobb?

I don't agree that he serves no purpose and I don't agree that the payroll relief means anything... do agree he's only going to bring so much back (particularly now) so giving him away does nothing for me.

[dude]

His salary means nothing. If you aren't getting talent back, zero reason to move him.

 

At the end of the 2021 season, you still owe him 20M and he will have not provided a single thing you can point to in the 2022 season.

 

Kind of funny how you've endorsed the expenditure of zero dollars short-term, but want to dig in on paying Cobb a lot more money?  Odd.

[SportsGuy]

I utterly disagree. He's pretty much done nothing since 2014. He had a good 2017 season but he's been an abyss outside of that. I just don't see a reason for a team to attack him hard with prospects.

2 decent prospects? Bundy would have more value than 99% of the Cobb scenarios...Cashner was pitching great and we got nothing. Villar was a 4 WAR player and they got nothing.

If he shows something, I think he could be traded based on cost risk only, but I seriously doubt there's prospect scenario we'd care about.

....but then you described his Leadership value....so you think his Leadership value is 2 decent prospects. You apparently don't value his Leadership that much.

He gives up 7 runs in any start, his fault or not, and his value is going back to 'eat the whole thing'.

I agree with a lot of this but 15-30 pretty good starts could make him a good candidate in the offseason or next year.

We aren’t likely to get back any elite talent but give me 2-3 more BP arms like Pop/Scott/Tate, etc(guys in the 10-20 range of an organization)...hope that some of these guys can make up a dominant hard throwing pen.

Between that, his leadership and performance on the field, I’m good with that vs dumping to save money that doesn’t matter if it’s spent or not.

[BSLChrisStoner]

At the end of the 2021 season, you still owe him 20M and he will have not provided a single thing you can point to in the 2022 season.

Kind of funny how you've endorsed the expenditure of zero dollars short-term, but want to dig in on paying Cobb a lot more money? Odd.

I've dug in on removing payroll long-term. They have. Payroll flexibility obtained.

I'm also fine with moving Cobb...if there is talent and control coming back.

I'm just not going to pretend his salary is any type of issue for the Orioles or something that has to be removed.

I also find it silly to act when the '21 rotation could be Means and 3 rookies that a veteran presence with them can't provide any value.

Odd position for you to take when you preach leadership, leadership, leadership.

Lastly the '21 Orioles can and should be attempting to improve. 75 to 81 wins on internal talent only - is not out of the picture depending on how the roster is constructed to begin (and how quickly they are to bring up talent).

[dude]

Odd position for you to take when you preach leadership, leadership, leadership.

 

Absolutely.  For winning. I think it has value in development too....but I'm not sure why we've identified Alex Cobb as the Leadership lynch pin necessary only for the 2021 season.

[Mike B]

I agree with a lot of this but 15-30 pretty good starts could make him a good candidate in the offseason or next year.

We aren’t likely to get back any elite talent but give me 2-3 more BP arms like Pop/Scott/Tate, etc(guys in the 10-20 range of an organization)...hope that some of these guys can make up a dominant hard throwing pen.

Between that, his leadership and performance on the field, I’m good with that vs dumping to save money that doesn’t matter if it’s spent or not.

Plus if he pitches well, it makes the product more enjoyable to watch.  I know, it does not matter to most, but the first 2 games of the year, show what a difference professional pitching makes.  It matters to me.

[dude]

Lastly the '21 Orioles can and should be attempting to improve. 75 to 81 wins on internal talent only - is not out of the picture depending on how the roster is constructed to begin (and how quickly they are to bring up talent).

 

Sarcasm?  So Ruiz, Alberto, Severino and Iglesias ARE the keys to success?  Has Elias added another player to the 2021 roster?

 

Better players can not get us to a 75-81 win team, but lesser players can.  Excellent. (note to self)

[BSLChrisStoner]

Absolutely. For winning. I think it has value in development too....but I'm not sure why we've identified Alex Cobb as the Leadership lynch pin necessary only for the 2021 season.

Because he's already there, he's known for it, and you'll have a staff of young arms...man, it's really not hard here.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Sarcasm? So Ruiz, Alberto, Severino and Iglesias ARE the keys to success? Has Elias added another player to the 2021 roster?

Better players can not get us to a 75-81 win team, but lesser players can. Excellent. (note to self)

Please just ignore me.

[Mackus]

It's not cruel.

I don't think it's necessary to trade him though. The O's don't need to get out from his contract.
No harm at all if you have him back for '21.

If someone wants to give you talent / ceiling / control... sure, listen.

The Orioles will want to trade him for nothing as soon as any team will take on a portion of his contract. Like Villar or Bundy.

We as fans I think are better off hoping he isn't traded until the off-season or next year. Maybe by that point he'll have pitched well for long enough and have little enough left on his contract that maybe we could actually get something back for him.

[Mackus]

His salary means nothing. If you aren't getting talent back, zero reason to move him.

For us as fans, yes this is the correct opinion.

For the team, I don't think they feel this way. They won't use the money to improve the team, now or in the future, but they'll want to save it.