137 replies to this topic

[NewMarketSean]

This will fail. I only hope it fails as gloriously as the original XFL did.

[Mike in STL]

This will fail. I only hope it fails as gloriously as the original XFL did.

It very well might. But I'm not going to root for it to fail. 

[SportsGuy]

http://www.espn.com/...xfl-return-2020

[Nigel Tufnel]

Maybe with enough lead time, teams will actually be able to complete a pass this time.

[BSLMikeLowe]

If they treat it like a developmental league for the NFL instead of direct competition, I think they could do well. 

 

Unless the NFL is helping to pay the bills, whether through direct funding or things like cross-promotion, shared facilities, and player pipelines, then there is zero reason for the XFL to go that route. I agree with the greater need for more player development beyond the NFL's own rosters, but they have done little more than lip-service and a half-hearted effort in Europe when it comes to that. They just don't seem to care.

[NewMarketSean]

Smaller stadiums, more intimate settings. That's the route to go. They were playing in the LA Coliseum and other major stadiums last time and you had maybe 20-30K people there and that's generous. The level of play is going to be bad at least give people a closer look at the game.

[bnickle]

I see virtually no way this can succeed.

[Mike in STL]

Not exactly news, or maybe it is to some, but some big updates since the last post here was a year ago. Also, I can't sleep.

 

To start, in March of 2018, two months after Vince announced a solo venture with the XFL return in Feb. 2020, the son of his former partner in the first go round, Charlie Ebersol, announced he and a group of investors, including Dick, would start the Alliance of American Football (AAF).

 

Started a new thread for that: https://www.baltimor...n-football-aaf/

 

Back to the XFL....

 

League Commissioner and CEO: Announced back in June, Oliver Luck. Former head of NFL Europe, GM of MLS's Houston Dynamo, Athletic Director at WVU, NCAA executive, and father of Andrew Luck.

 

8 cities and home stadiums, announced in December

NY/NJ - MetLife Stadium

Dallas - Globe Life Park (Rangers ballpark)

Houston - TDECU Stadium (University of Houston)

L.A. - StubHub Center (Chargers current home)

St. Louis - Dome at America's Center (Rams former home)

Seattle - Century Link Field (Seahawks home)

Tampa - Raymond James Stadium (Bucs Home)

DC - Audi Field (New DC United stadium, adjacent to Nats Park)

 

10 week season. 4 teams make the playoffs for a semi-finals and finals. 

 

League is already perhaps seeking expansion having registered XFL domains in Atlanta, Austin, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, KC, Minnesota, Nashville, Orlando, Philly, Phoenix, Pitt, and San Fran. (Looks like no Baltimore in the works)

 

Haven't finished it yet, but I listened to a podcast featuring Oliver Luck recently. He and Vince, plus the AAF group led by Charlie Ebersol, had the same reasoning for starting new leagues. Research suggested 45 million football fans watch little to no sports after the Super Bowl. 30 million participate in fantasy football but no other forms of fantasy sports. So many are left with a void between the Super Bowl and the next NFL season. 

 

Problem is, IMO, the NFL does a perfect job of reminding everyone, all year round that they exist. Super Bowl, scouting combine, free agency opens, schedule release, draft, OTAs, training camp, preseason games. Where did the time go?

 

On the XFL website there is a few short youtube clips of the "Football Reimagination Committee" laying out what the game could be. One white board with potential game shortening rules include 12 minute quarters. Split screen ads for no tv timeouts. 20-25 second play clock. No quarter breaks (??? Is it a 48:00 clock if there isn't a break?) Maybe it's two halves not four quarters? Also noted running clock, like soccer, is a "bad idea". 

 

Rule changes currently being field tested:

Fair catch rules similar to XFL 1.0, and CFL. No fair catches, but a five-yard bubble.

No XPs. Scrimmage play from the two for one pt. from the five for two pts. from the 15 for three points.

All players are eligible receivers, however lineman cant advance past the LOS before the pass is in the air, like in the NFL.

Allowing more than one forward pass per play (That could get interesting, but maybe way to radical. Take play books to a whole new level. Also a lot of iso play because defenses can't swarm to the ball carrier).

LOS to be one yard wide, rather than length of football. Current CFL rule

Outlaw the three point stance by O-lineman. No hands in the dirt. (Wonder if this is player safety related, less explosion out of a squatted stance, less explosion in a head collision with the D-lineman).

Extra official specifically for faster placement of the ball only. 

 

Still have some of the lengthy interview with Luck to finish. But I don't see the XFL being any competition for the NFL. The elevator speech Luck gives is basically, the talent level of athletes has never been higher, evident by the current level expressed in the college game, and how quick young players are acclimating to the NFL. That the players not retained by NFL teams are still good enough to make the XFL legitimate football as well. (Bad football being one of the major flaws of the XFL 1.0).

[SportsGuy]

What will be interesting is if guys leave college early to go play in the XFL

[Mike in STL]

What will be interesting is if guys leave college early to go play in the XFL

I’m not sure the incentive is there.

[SportsGuy]

I’m not sure the incentive is there.

They can get paid like 400k.

After paying your agent and taxes, it’s not a lot of money but better than sitting in a class room.

Problem is injuries. But you could get hurt playing in college too.

[Mike in STL]

They can get paid like 400k.

After paying your agent and taxes, it’s not a lot of money but better than sitting in a class room.

Problem is injuries. But you could get hurt playing in college too.

Podcast I listened to (Sports Business Radio with Brian Berger) said that the minimum salary will be about $50k-$60k a year. But quarterbacks, higher profile players can earn $250K-$300k. 

 

Sounds like it will be one year contracts, with no restrictions on jumping to another league at seasons end. 

 

Without rules on how long you have to be removed from high school, theoretically, Trevor Lawrence, could leave Clemson for the XFL, while the NFL won't take him until 2021. If he gets $300K for one year, it's significantly lower than a top-ten pick in the NFL draft gets in year one, but he gets paid sooner.

 

Question will be would guys like this become free agents on the open market after a year in the XFL? If he's open market, he could end up commanding far more money than a second year player would make on his NFL rookie contract assigned to his draft slot.

 

The talent level has to be higher though. The Steelers were the only team interested at all in Tommy Maddox who was XFL MVP in its lone season. I realize Maddox was a former NFL draft pick, journeyman before he went to the XFL, But what will NFL teams value more? Someone who has played well for three years in college, against some other first round, second round picks, but also guys with no future in football? Or look at the the star of the XFL as a guy who dominated a bunch of not even good enough for the NFL guys? 

 

In this sense, I could see some players forgoing the draft, even if they leave school as a junior or senior, play a year in the XFL, risk injury at a lower salary to get to a bigger pay day, faster. 

 

However, the NFL could institute a supplemental draft for XFL/AAF players, and maybe those guys are subject to rookie contracts, then I think the allure of skipping college for the XFL only applies to a much smaller pool of people. 

[Mike in STL]

Hypothetical question. Trevor Lawrence would be a top-ten pick if eligible for the NFL draft today. Of course, he's not. If he played in the XFL, was league MVP, won the leagues title game, and was a free agent free to sign with any NFL team, what type of offers would you expect him to get?

[JeremyStrain]

Hypothetical question. Trevor Lawrence would be a top-ten pick if eligible for the NFL draft today. Of course, he's not. If he played in the XFL, was league MVP, won the leagues title game, and was a free agent free to sign with any NFL team, what type of offers would you expect him to get?

 

The other question is does it open up an avenue for players NOT to go to college, play and develop in the XFL and go to the NFL when eligible?

 

I said this at the beginning, if they view this as a developmental league and giving fringe guys shots they wouldn't normally get, instead of trying to compete with the NFL, it's got a real shot.

[SportsGuy]

I think he would have to be drafted.  The rule is 3 years out of high school.

[Mackus]

Question will be would guys like this become free agents on the open market after a year in the XFL? If he's open market, he could end up commanding far more money than a second year player would make on his NFL rookie contract assigned to his draft slot.

 

Under the current rules, I don't think so.  I haven't dug into the exact wording in the CBA, but from summaries I've read, players must be 3 years removed from high school AND have used up their college eligibility to be draft eligible.  Players who are 3 years emoved from HS but not done with eligibility (i.e. early entries) have to request to be draft eligible (which is always granted).  Only players who are draft eligible and have gone undrafted can then be signed as unrestricted free agents.  The supplemental draft is for players who aren't draft eligible in April/May but become draft eligible by July.  This is mainly just players who get kicked out or otherwise leave school in that interim time.  Players cannot intentionally bypass the NFL draft to be eligible for the supplemental draft, though I don't know how that is enforced.

 

So if Lawrence left this year for the XFL, he is not NFL draft eligible because he's not 3 years removed from high school.  If he plays the next 2 years in the XFL, he then still would have college eligibility left (ignoring the fact he got paid to play football and probably would be deemed ineligible) so he'd petition the NFL and be entered into the draft.

 

And if my reading is wrong and there is a loophole that would allow a player to go to free agency without going through the draft, I'm certain the NFL will close it very quickly.

[DJ MC]

Hypothetical question. Trevor Lawrence would be a top-ten pick if eligible for the NFL draft today. Of course, he's not. If he played in the XFL, was league MVP, won the leagues title game, and was a free agent free to sign with any NFL team, what type of offers would you expect him to get?

 

I doubt he would be considered a free agent until he had gone through the draft. And once he's picked, the picking team has rights for some period of time. So it is quite unlikely he would become a free agent unless he sued and won.

[Mike in STL]

Under the current rules, I don't think so. I haven't dug into the exact wording in the CBA, but from summaries I've read, players must be 3 years removed from high school AND have used up their college eligibility to be draft eligible. Players who are 3 years emoved from HS but not done with eligibility (i.e. early entries) have to request to be draft eligible (which is always granted). Only players who are draft eligible and have gone undrafted can then be signed as unrestricted free agents. The supplemental draft is for players who aren't draft eligible in April/May but become draft eligible by July. This is mainly just players who get kicked out or otherwise leave school in that interim time. Players cannot intentionally bypass the NFL draft to be eligible for the supplemental draft, though I don't know how that is enforced.

So if Lawrence left this year for the XFL, he is not NFL draft eligible because he's not 3 years removed from high school. If he plays the next 2 years in the XFL, he then still would have college eligibility left (ignoring the fact he got paid to play football and probably would be deemed ineligible) so he'd petition the NFL and be entered into the draft.

And if my reading is wrong and there is a loophole that would allow a player to go to free agency without going through the draft, I'm certain the NFL will close it very quickly.

Would hiring an agent make him ineligible for collegiate athletics? And then making him draft eligible, three years after high school?

I guess I’m thinking of it in like old, baseball, intl’ free agent terms. Pretend the XFL is a foreign entity, and a player emerges with insane talent. None of those guys go through the MLB draft. They just go to the highest bidder.

NFL has undrafted free agents. With today’s structure, and the fact that they don’t play American football for real anywhere else, it’s just uncharterted territory to give an undrafted FA a newsworthy contract way more the more than minimum, or having teams fight over a UDFA.

[Mike in STL]

I guess the difference is someone like say, Gus Edwards was draft eligible and not selected. Where as Lawrence if made draft eligible would defiantly get picked. Unless also like some MLB prospects he enters the draft with “signability issues”. Tells teams don’t draft him, he won’t sign. Then when the draft is over, listens to the highest bidder. But I still don’t see that ever be a case.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Hypothetical question. Trevor Lawrence would be a top-ten pick if eligible for the NFL draft today. Of course, he's not. If he played in the XFL, was league MVP, won the leagues title game, and was a free agent free to sign with any NFL team, what type of offers would you expect him to get?

 

I don't think it makes sense for him right now. He'd be jumping in to a complete unknown in terms of competition level and coaching, versus knowing what his likely development path at Clemson will be....all for the sake of making maybe 200k in take-home money.

 

He'd almost be better off just leaving Clemson now, working out the next two years then getting drafted, than trying the XFL2.0