513 replies to this topic

[Hooded Viper]

They paid the ACC $50 million to leave. Their Big Ten profit shares have helped, but to this point have essentially only gotten them back into the green after years of being in the red. I believe the shares get bigger in the next few years, which should open some things up.

 

I had inside knowledge of the athletic department's budget as recently as Spring 2016 when I was leading The Pride, and Mike's analysis is pretty spot-on. People assume there's all this money to go around, but the bottom line is that their profit margins are tiny. For awhile there, they were in the red. Since 2010, they've had to buy out the contracts of 3 different head football coaches and numerous assistants. For Damon Evans to go to the boosters yet again to buyout the contract of another head coach (and all of his assistants), he'd have to do a lot worse than reach NCAA Tournament in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

 

In a perfect world, there would be an easy way out of Turgeon's contract. But the bottom line is that this athletic department isn't going to eat the cost to buy him out just yet. Not that it isn't a worthwhile conversation to have, but it simply isn't happening anytime soon.

 

This is exactly right, and I can tell you that MD universities are losing a shit ton of money due to government changes in sponsored funding.  The "cash cow" argument is BS.

[Mackus]

If he wasn’t winning, would they keep him?

Are the results just good enough where they don’t see a need to fire him or would it not matter at all if he was winning or not? I.e., they wouldn’t fire him no matter what?

If they were much worse then I think they'd have an easier time finding outside money to pay for it like they did with Edsall.

Excluding donors covering the costs, I think if they didn't just have to buy out the football staff that it would be at least feasible that the athletic department would bite that huge bullet on Turgeon. But once you had to pay for that, feasible was reduced to impossible unless there was another similar student safety or well being issue.

[Hooded Viper]

Guys, state run schools in MD receive most of their revenue based upon government agency sponsored funding fiance and administration (F&A).  There has been a dramatic change in this area recently so those schools, including JHU and MD, have been hit hard due to these changes.  It is now a drying up well that every state school is trying to tap into.  So just wiping your ass with the amount of money it would cost to fire MT and his staff, especially after the Durkin debacle, is simply not possible. or extremely difficult.  You can't possibly think Kevin Plank is donating that much money???

[SportsGuy]

Ricker mentioned Pitino...that’s a great idea imo. May not have to pay him big money right off the bat either.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I've been very consistent in saying I don't want a Bruce Pearl/Rick Pitino type. Or a Sean Miller. Or in general, selling our soul to contend. I've also been consistent about noting it could def get worse, and that at least Turgeon is respectable and seemingly above board with how he does things. I just think a program with this much potential shouldn't have a problem finding a nice balance of a young coach who can recruit cleanly, and actually coach, and who would want to stay a while. That's my criteria.

Honest question: how sexy a hire was Gary William's back in the day?

[JeremyStrain]

Guys, state run schools in MD receive most of their revenue based upon government agency sponsored funding fiance and administration (F&A).  There has been a dramatic change in this area recently so those schools, including JHU and MD, have been hit hard due to these changes.  It is now a drying up well that every state school is trying to tap into.  So just wiping your ass with the amount of money it would cost to fire MT and his staff, especially after the Durkin debacle, is simply not possible. or extremely difficult.  You can't possibly think Kevin Plank is donating that much money???

 

Plank isn't donating much of anything right now. UA took a massive hit last year in their financials, and Plank himself is being investigated by the board for some potential shenanigans.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I've been very consistent in saying I don't want a Bruce Pearl/Rick Pitino type. Or a Sean Miller. Or in general, selling our soul to contend. I've also been consistent about noting it could def get worse, and that at least Turgeon is respectable and seemingly above board with how he does things. I just think a program with this much potential shouldn't have a problem finding a nice balance of a young coach who can recruit cleanly, and actually coach, and who would want to stay a while. That's my criteria.

Honest question: how sexy a hire was Gary William's back in the day?

Given where MD was program wise and what Gary had done at BC and Ohio State (and being an Alum) he was a home run.

Nate Oats is the most plausible name I can come up with in a world where MD pulled the trigger now.

Billy Donovan about to be pushed out of OKC. Imagine he is too expensive, even to dream about.

Gary said recently he would coach again, just doesn't expect it to happen. Maybe he would do it at a cost MD could handle?

For as much as I love Gary...not sure that is the right move for him or MD.

[McNulty]

Gary is sexy af

[BSLChrisStoner]

Plank isn't donating much of anything right now. UA took a massive hit last year in their financials, and Plank himself is being investigated by the board for some potential shenanigans.

Actually their stock had a strong year in 18.

The culture issues are being addressed. Further changes in policies and leadership.

Locksley's hire was big for Plank supposedly. He isn't donating endlessly though. Cole FH still not fully funded.

[Ojielo]

Keith Gatlin would be an excellent choice

[JeremyStrain]

Actually their stock had a strong year in 18.

The culture issues are being addressed. Further changes in policies and leadership.

Locksley's hire was big for Plank supposedly. He isn't donating endlessly though. Cole FH still not fully funded.

 

There's a lot more to things than the stock prices, especially when they are easily manipulated. I just (am still doing) a real detailed analysis on them and their financials are awful compared the the past few years. Numbers down across the board, took on a TON of debt. All their ratios dropped pretty bad.

 

It's hard to use stock to judge UA cause they don't pay out dividends. It's like ok, here in theory is what the company is worth per share, but owning it isn't going to do you much good unless you get lucky and buy low/sell high. Investors are encourage to hold stock and keep their money in the company when they actually get paid some dividends year to year. NIKE, Adidas...almost all their competitors gained market share on them this year, and UA can't afford to cede ground because they are still the little guy in that fight, their numbers are still orders of magnitude smaller. It's been fine because they've been on the right track and are younger so you want to give them time, but when that growth curve hits a wall like it did after 2016. (Concerns about political affiliations, revelations about the culture, two of his closest execs being fired for improperly spending company funds, and then Plank himself narrowly avoiding trouble after connections between him and other influential financial world members were found)

 

They are still in a great place, it's not like they are going to shut down, but it slowed their ambitious construction project, and they've got to right the ship this year or they may have to restructure next year to keep this current model going.

 

Sorry...very off topic, just have been knee deep in this for a few months now. Back to basketball discussion.

[Mackus]

Keith Gatlin would be an excellent choice

 

One .500 season as an assistant at High Point isn't really the resume I think we should be looking for.  Love the idea of bringing back former Terps, but we also need to meet a certain threshold.  I'd be interested in hiring him as an assistant if we have an opening.  If you can work for Tubby, then you've got some clout.  But I can't imagine that he's ready for this level of job yet.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Honest question: how sexy a hire was Gary William's back in the day?

My memory is that basically everybody thought it was a great hire. Williams was one of the best young coaches in the country, had a stacked Ohio State team, and Maryland just got lucky that he happened to be an alum.

[DJ MC]

For as much as I love Gary...not sure that is the right move for him or MD.

 

It would be a great move for the short term and a terrible move for the long term.

 

Unless he were to plan on being coach for a set period--three-to-five-years maybe--and has an idea of someone he can bring in as his #2 who has recruiting skills (and the desire Williams doesn't) and can be groomed into being as good a teacher/game coach to be the long-term successor. That's about the only way it would really work.

 

Otherwise, he brings a short burst of euphoric nostalgia that would get fans (and probably some donors) back. But it doesn't change the reasons he left, on his end and the program/booster/fanbase end, and pushes the problems down the road with no solutions.

[mweb08]

I've been very consistent in saying I don't want a Bruce Pearl/Rick Pitino type. Or a Sean Miller. Or in general, selling our soul to contend. I've also been consistent about noting it could def get worse, and that at least Turgeon is respectable and seemingly above board with how he does things. I just think a program with this much potential shouldn't have a problem finding a nice balance of a young coach who can recruit cleanly, and actually coach, and who would want to stay a while. That's my criteria.

Honest question: how sexy a hire was Gary William's back in the day?

Some are worse than others, but I don't believe many coaches at programs like MD are truly recruiting cleanly.

[You Play to Win the Game]

It would be a great move for the short term and a terrible move for the long term.

 

Unless he were to plan on being coach for a set period--three-to-five-years maybe--and has an idea of someone he can bring in as his #2 who has recruiting skills (and the desire Williams doesn't) and can be groomed into being as good a teacher/game coach to be the long-term successor. That's about the only way it would really work.

 

Otherwise, he brings a short burst of euphoric nostalgia that would get fans (and probably some donors) back. But it doesn't change the reasons he left, on his end and the program/booster/fanbase end, and pushes the problems down the road with no solutions.

Well said. I wouldn't be in favor of this move at all. Maybe Turge would just let Gary take over the team every February. Then return the reigns back to Turge after the tourney. That would be ideal. It's unconventional. But so are "openers" in baseball, why not? 

 

Weber - Very true. I know I'm a hypocrite - I guess in the end, I want someone who plays the game well and doesn't do anything egregious that would harm the program longterm. I can sleep at night because I at least am on record as wishing the players were compensated for the billions they make the NCAA and their schools.

[SBTarheel]

I've been very consistent in saying I don't want a Bruce Pearl/Rick Pitino type. Or a Sean Miller. Or in general, selling our soul to contend. I've also been consistent about noting it could def get worse, and that at least Turgeon is respectable and seemingly above board with how he does things. I just think a program with this much potential shouldn't have a problem finding a nice balance of a young coach who can recruit cleanly, and actually coach, and who would want to stay a while. That's my criteria.

Honest question: how sexy a hire was Gary William's back in the day?

He had some success at BC, not much at Ohio State but he had just signed Jimmy Jackson, who was a top 5 recruit, and obviously ended up becoming a superstar, so it was huge that he'd come home after seemingly beginning to build something at Ohio State. That team did end up having a ton of success (#1 seed in 1991, lost to Fab 5 in Elite 8). it was cool that he came home, and what he did at Maryland was beyond incredible considering where they were when he got there. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

He had some success at BC, not much at Ohio State but he had just signed Jimmy Jackson, who was a top 5 recruit, and obviously ended up becoming a superstar, so it was huge that he'd come home after seemingly beginning to build something at Ohio State. That team did end up having a ton of success (#1 seed in 1991, lost to Fab 5 in Elite 8). it was cool that he came home, and what he did at Maryland was beyond incredible considering where they were when he got there. 

Seems eerily similar to Miller, except he decided to stay in ARI with the recruits. Thanks for all the context, I find that pretty fascinating. Very grateful he decided to come to MD. In the grand scheme of things, not being a blue blood, etc., should probably be more grateful we had a generational coach to see us through a couple decades and reach the pinnacle of the sport for a stretch there.

[SBTarheel]

Seems eerily similar to Miller, except he decided to stay in ARI with the recruits. Thanks for all the context, I find that pretty fascinating. Very grateful he decided to come to MD. In the grand scheme of things, not being a blue blood, etc., should probably be more grateful we had a generational coach to see us through a couple decades and reach the pinnacle of the sport for a stretch there.

I just remember the excitement when they beat Virginia in 1994 and everyone felt they locked up a bid to the Tourney. They were a 10 seed if I remember correctly, and might have been one of the last at large teams. It was HUGE for them to even get in, and obviously to make a sweet 16 run that year was just gravy. 

 

But yeah, to end up where Gary took them, man, dude should have multiple statues all over College Park. What a legend, and a great in game coach, one of the best. 

[birdwatcher55]

My memory is that basically everybody thought it was a great hire. Williams was one of the best young coaches in the country, had a stacked Ohio State team, and Maryland just got lucky that he happened to be an alum.

I agree. He ran clean programs. Gary saved Maryland basketball. He is a God in my book.