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MLB Considering Expansion, Realignment, Shortening Schedule


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#121 BobPhelan

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 03:43 PM

Eutaw Street Report: 105.7 Apologizes for "O's Moving to Las Vegas" Rumor


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#122 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 04:34 PM

That thread title gives me a visceral reaction.
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#123 Mackus

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 04:48 PM

Mis-transposed some of the letters in the last word at first glance and thought Ricker was having a very different take.

#124 Slidemaster

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:07 PM

Major League Baseball has to approve a move. Why would they move the Orioles, who have a home in one of the nicest parks in baseball, when they're raised and the Marlins both still exist?

Furthermore, anyone who thinks Las Vegas can support a baseball team is out of their mind. Nobody in Vegas wants to see baseball.

#125 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:30 PM

Major League Baseball has to approve a move. Why would they move the Orioles, who have a home in one of the nicest parks in baseball, when they're raised and the Marlins both still exist?

Furthermore, anyone who thinks Las Vegas can support a baseball team is out of their mind. Nobody in Vegas wants to see baseball.


Couldn’t they have said the same thing about hockey?

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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#126 JeremyStrain

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:45 PM

Couldn’t they have said the same thing about hockey?

 

Yeah that's the one weak argument that doesn't hold up. Vegas is proving that it can get behind pro sports teams. Of course if the Knights were a normal expansion team and sucked for a couple years first, it might have been a better read. But I absolutely think Vegas can support a baseball team. And if they could prove that MLB forcing the Nats into the area hampered the O's into not being able to operate, it would cost MLB a lot more money than that.


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#127 DJ MC

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 06:01 PM

Major League Baseball has to approve a move. Why would they move the Orioles, who have a home in one of the nicest parks in baseball, when they're raised and the Marlins both still exist?

 

The Orioles' lease ends after 2021.


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#128 Slidemaster

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 07:48 PM

The Orioles' lease ends after 2021.


And then it would become what? A fancy monument?

It's not happening.

#129 DJ MC

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Posted 05 May 2019 - 08:05 PM

And then it would become what? A fancy monument?


The place the Rays move after their lease expires in 2026ish.
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#130 ivanbalt

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 06:18 AM

Yeah that's the one weak argument that doesn't hold up. Vegas is proving that it can get behind pro sports teams. Of course if the Knights were a normal expansion team and sucked for a couple years first, it might have been a better read. But I absolutely think Vegas can support a baseball team. And if they could prove that MLB forcing the Nats into the area hampered the O's into not being able to operate, it would cost MLB a lot more money than that.

 

Any baseball team would have to play in a dome.  I can't see fans sitting in that heat for 3 hours watching a slow paced game.



#131 JeremyStrain

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:42 AM

Any baseball team would have to play in a dome.  I can't see fans sitting in that heat for 3 hours watching a slow paced game.

 

Very possible, but I bet there will be heavy odds on it recurring as an all-star host too. All Star game in Vegas? Don't have to worry about rain outs? At the very worst, it'd be like oppo-CHC, where they just wouldn't play many if any day games there. Nights in Vegas are actually usually pretty comfortable because of the lack of humidity.


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#132 weird-O

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:55 AM

On the bright side, if the O's move to Vegas, I could finally watch them on TV without a $100/month cable bill. So it's not all bad.


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#133 weird-O

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 08:01 AM

I have a question for the audience. How do the teams in NYC and Chicago share their markets? In a scenario where MASN is dissolved, wouldn't the region be open for both the O's and Nats? 

 

I know MLB hates Peter, and if he was in charge, they would do everything they could to crush him. If that hate doesn't transfer to the sons, wouldn't MLB want to treat the mid-Atlantic like NYC and Chicago, and call it another two team market? Both teams would have the opportunity to negotiate a new media contract with whoever they want. 


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#134 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 08:14 AM

I have a question for the audience. How do the teams in NYC and Chicago share their markets? In a scenario where MASN is dissolved, wouldn't the region be open for both the O's and Nats? 

 

I know MLB hates Peter, and if he was in charge, they would do everything they could to crush him. If that hate doesn't transfer to the sons, wouldn't MLB want to treat the mid-Atlantic like NYC and Chicago, and call it another two team market? Both teams would have the opportunity to negotiate a new media contract with whoever they want. 

 

 

The issue is the number of subscribers with that team's channel in their package.  In cases where there are two teams in the same city, I my guess is that most people just have a channel for both teams, so neither loses out on TV money.

 

The O's problem is that if they and the Nats weren't tied together, most of the TV area would drop the O's for the Nats, and MASN would lost a ton of revenue.  That's the reason that the two teams' TV rights were tied together in the first place.



#135 JeremyStrain

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 08:36 AM

I have a question for the audience. How do the teams in NYC and Chicago share their markets? In a scenario where MASN is dissolved, wouldn't the region be open for both the O's and Nats? 

 

I know MLB hates Peter, and if he was in charge, they would do everything they could to crush him. If that hate doesn't transfer to the sons, wouldn't MLB want to treat the mid-Atlantic like NYC and Chicago, and call it another two team market? Both teams would have the opportunity to negotiate a new media contract with whoever they want. 

 

The argument was always that yes, it's a major metro area, like NYC and CHC, BUT it can't sustain two teams. Baseball just isn't that big in this area, it's always going to fall behind Football, and if the team were any good, basketball too. Over that long of a season, in such a transient area (there are LOTS more fans of other teams here than in any of those major metro cities) it's just not sustainable for two teams. At their peak in the mid 90's when it was just the one, sure it was enough for them to sit at the top of attendance, they had a brand new gorgeous stadium, but with little to no public access. They had a team at the top of payroll every year, and in title contention hitting HR left and right. It was an exciting period. Those big splash FA signings like the Redskins tried to copy, energized everyone. BUT there was no waiting list for tickets. They were at their peak. When you split that market and take out the casual fans that have to drive 30-40 minutes to a game in the DC area. And you take out the TONS of corporate sponsorship/ticket sales from the DC area (they all moved to the Nats, and it's why you see so many people there straight from work, on laptops, still working during games there, they aren't paying for their tickets, work did) it hurt what the O's could send out there.

 

Couple that with a disaster of a rebuild period where no one knew what they were doing and probably tripled how long it should have lasted, and it was a good storm to really weaken your fan base and market share. Those younger fans growing up in the area could easily just pick the Nats to root for with Strasburg, Harper, and spending a ton of money instead of a losing joke of a franchise. So that's like 4 years worth of fans that didn't choose the O's as THEIR team.

 

Angelos whole argument was that this was going to happen. MLB looked at the raw numbers and said NAAAAHHHHH you'll be fine, stop being a drama queen. So MASN was born to try to make sure the O's kept a certain revenue stream. That either hasn't worked as more and more people have cut the cord, that reduces regional sports networks revenue. With so many people in this area having home teams other places, they are likely just to do a streaming package to watch their home team and not pay for the local regional stuff. None of it has worked out how they wanted...and Angelos was right in the end. The Nats were just enough of a dent in things to make sure neither was really rolling in resources, and if teams were bad and they lose the attendance numbers, it's not enough for them to compete with the big boys which you have to in the AL East. They will just buy us out of the race.

 

Oh yeah, forgot to mention another factor that hurt the O's. Moving all their minor league affiliates close to home, and putting the Baysox right in their target market. Now families, especially with younger kids had another option to go watch baseball. It might not seem like it should affect it, but it does. Before they HAD to buy O's tix to get baseball in their lives, but now they could choose to go cheaper and closer, and not make that investment. They had 5000 in season tix sales for a while there. If you assume that one is not buying both O's and Baysox season tix you just cut out 5000 potential ticket buyers for the O's. Not saying 1 to 1 they either bought them or didn't, but out of that sample size a couple thousand may have switched or seen use in the other team (my family was one).


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#136 weird-O

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 08:53 AM

The issue is the number of subscribers with that team's channel in their package.  In cases where there are two teams in the same city, I my guess is that most people just have a channel for both teams, so neither loses out on TV money.

 

The O's problem is that if they and the Nats weren't tied together, most of the TV area would drop the O's for the Nats, and MASN would lost a ton of revenue.  That's the reason that the two teams' TV rights were tied together in the first place.

I'm not sure the O's would be dropped. Having lived in NoVA for a 10 year period, I can tell you that there are lots of people who didn't switch to being Nats fans. Some did, and as children are born and raised, they'll probably become Nats fans. But when you get down into the Carolinas, those folks aren't likely to completely stop following the O's, just because the Nats exist. There's no hometown loyalty to DC, if you live in SC.  


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#137 JeremyStrain

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:05 AM

I'm not sure the O's would be dropped. Having lived in NoVA for a 10 year period, I can tell you that there are lots of people who didn't switch to being Nats fans. Some did, and as children are born and raised, they'll probably become Nats fans. But when you get down into the Carolinas, those folks aren't likely to completely stop following the O's, just because the Nats exist. There's no hometown loyalty to DC, if you live in SC.  

 

Not yet...but that will fade as kids grow up and become the target market. We are getting old and slowly falling out of the market, it's the younger crowd they are trying to capture for the next 30 years.

 

And when NC gets a baseball team here in the next expansion that will finish off that group of hold outs. I think an area like Charlotte or Raleigh is primed to get a team. I've been expecting like Portland and Charlotte, and then an underperforming team will move to Las Vegas. I thought we were primed to see either TB or MIA move there, but then they get into talks for new stadiums. They gotta realize FL just isn't going to sustain a team long term.


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#138 weird-O

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:34 AM

Not yet...but that will fade as kids grow up and become the target market. We are getting old and slowly falling out of the market, it's the younger crowd they are trying to capture for the next 30 years.

 

And when NC gets a baseball team here in the next expansion that will finish off that group of hold outs. I think an area like Charlotte or Raleigh is primed to get a team. I've been expecting like Portland and Charlotte, and then an underperforming team will move to Las Vegas. I thought we were primed to see either TB or MIA move there, but then they get into talks for new stadiums. They gotta realize FL just isn't going to sustain a team long term.

A new team moving into NC would be a major disrupter.  


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#139 JeremyStrain

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:42 AM

A new team moving into NC would be a major disrupter.  

 

I think the last year or two was the first time I really had trouble getting my "home" teams on TV down there. We go to the OBX a couple times a year, and it was always the home team, O's and Redskins. Now as of late the Nats are on TV more often than not, and I can't get the Redskins preseason games to save my life.


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#140 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:44 AM

This thread needs to die. I'm tired of seeing it on the front page everytime I refresh. Go fantasize about this somewhere else.


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