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Main Street Ellicott City Floods / Rebuild


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#121 NewMarketSean

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:20 PM

from his Facebook page last Friday:

 

Okay kiddos, it's Friday and the start of Memorial Day weekend. Let's get the hate out of our hearts. Focus on the positives and let's all, for once, enjoy life as it's meant to be enjoyed. Whatever your pleasure is: whether it's watching the Blue Angels fly over, drinking, bbq'ing, smoking crack, playing yahtzee, whatever....just be happy. We're free because people gave their lives for us to live this way. So....stop being mad for one single weekend. PLEASE. In the words of my favorite poet Tom, from Parks&Rec "Treat yoself!" (to a negativity-free weekend)


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#122 RShack

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:37 PM

Spoke to my father in law last night who is a civil engineer and has worked on tons of projects involving roadways, bridges, and causeways, etc.  He said EC actually collected bids for a culvert at the top of Main Street after the last storm, would've cost about $2M, but all it would've done is redirect some of the water at the top of Main Street (Rogers Ave side) and saved a few of those buildings, the water would've spilled back over and gone down Main Street in much the same way.

 

He also added that even if they installed a state of the art water drainage system and spent every penny in the world, that it wouldn't solve the problem.  Drainage systems don't divert water, they simply hold it and let it out slowly at an appropriate spot.  Even a massive, multiple times larger system than they would've built (if they could have built it) would have filled up and overflowed from this amount of water.  EC is too low on the water table, too close to the river, and there is simply too much runoff to handle all the water.  Maybe it wouldn't have been as much damage, but it still would have been catastrophic damage even if they spent tens upon tens of millions after the last storm to try and stop future flooding.

 

Thanks for that...

 

Your father clearly knows more about it than I do.   

 

I don't think it's a matter of whether or not it can be fixed... it's always been a problem, even the guy who founded the place lost his buildings to a flood... it's a matter of mitigation... e.g., how much rain can the place handle before it becomes a disaster... maybe they can't fix what are labelled as once-every-1000 years storms, but can they do anything about once-every-100-years storms... or are the latter kind even a problem?   Do we really know how much rain the place can handle?   

 

I'm also curious to learn what he has to say about water diversion rather than drainage... I know they've done things like that out west (but maybe that caused its own cascade of problems?)


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#123 DuffMan

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:41 PM

https://www.washingt...=.7fa1949a3076 

Furthermore, the climate is changing, and precipitation events have become more intense in recent decades, so what constitutes different return frequencies (100-year, 500-year, 1,000-year and so forth) is probably changing.

Climate change studies have found that what’s considered a 500-year rainstorm today may become much more frequent in coming decades.



#124 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:49 PM

Spoke to my father in law last night who is a civil engineer and has worked on tons of projects involving roadways, bridges, and causeways, etc.  He said EC actually collected bids for a culvert at the top of Main Street after the last storm, would've cost about $2M, but all it would've done is redirect some of the water at the top of Main Street (Rogers Ave side) and saved a few of those buildings, the water would've spilled back over and gone down Main Street in much the same way.

 

He also added that even if they installed a state of the art water drainage system and spent every penny in the world, that it wouldn't solve the problem.  Drainage systems don't divert water, they simply hold it and let it out slowly at an appropriate spot.  Even a massive, multiple times larger system than they would've built (if they could have built it) would have filled up and overflowed from this amount of water.  EC is too low on the water table, too close to the river, and there is simply too much runoff to handle all the water.  Maybe it wouldn't have been as much damage, but it still would have been catastrophic damage even if they spent tens upon tens of millions after the last storm to try and stop future flooding.

 

The city of Frederick put in an anti-flooding system after huge floods back in the 70's, and it's exactly what you're describing - it funnels all the water to a giant holding tank, which drains slowly.  Frederick got a lot of rain a week or two ago - actually more rain in a shorter period of time than in the storms that flooded all of downtown in the 70's - and the system worked pretty well.  There was minor flooding, but nothing like in the 70's.

 

But downtown Frederick is mostly flat.  With the volume of water flowing downhill in EC, I have no idea what you would do.  Also, it took Frederick like 20-25 years to get theirs built.

 

https://www.cityoffr...roll-Creek-Park

 

https://www.washingt...k-frederick-md/


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#125 RShack

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:50 PM

^^^^^

 

The "studies have found" link is about off-shore storms coming ashore coastal areas... i.e., bad hurricanes...

 

Did the rain that caused this flooding come from an offshore storm?   


 "The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige


#126 NewMarketSean

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:55 PM

^^^^^

 

The "studies have found" link is about off-shore storms coming ashore coastal areas... i.e., bad hurricanes...

 

Did the rain that caused this flooding come from an offshore storm?   

No.


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I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#127 RShack

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:04 PM

No.

 

OK...

 

I think it's iffy to pin this on climate change... could be, but I don't think we can say much about that so far....


 "The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige


#128 SportsGuy

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 03:10 PM

The local news was talking about the issues with all the water surrounding EC and how that’s a huge problem.

Never once mentioned overdevelopment. Horrible reporting.

#129 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 03:11 PM

The city of Frederick put in an anti-flooding system after huge floods back in the 70's, and it's exactly what you're describing - it funnels all the water to a giant holding tank, which drains slowly.  Frederick got a lot of rain a week or two ago - actually more rain in a shorter period of time than in the storms that flooded all of downtown in the 70's - and the system worked pretty well.  There was minor flooding, but nothing like in the 70's.

 

But downtown Frederick is mostly flat.  With the volume of water flowing downhill in EC, I have no idea what you would do.  Also, it took Frederick like 20-25 years to get theirs built.

 

https://www.cityoffr...roll-Creek-Park

 

https://www.washingt...k-frederick-md/

And a great case study, that to do this, it can actually add quite a bit to the culture and aesthetics of a town. Downtown Frederick is beautiful. Didn't always used to be.



#130 DuffMan

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 09:32 AM

Bean Hollow is done in EC.  The owner says she hopes to open up in Catonsville but will not be returning to Main Street.



#131 NewMarketSean

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 10:22 AM

And a great case study, that to do this, it can actually add quite a bit to the culture and aesthetics of a town. Downtown Frederick is beautiful. Didn't always used to be.

Geography is completely different here in Frederick, but they did solve the issue of flooding pretty well. I wonder how much that project cost compared to what is being estimated for EC.

 

And it also seems like Frederick was a pretty solveable issue. With EC can you say that it will ever be fixed?


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#132 SportsGuy

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:52 AM

Chance of more flooding today

#133 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 01:20 PM

Geography is completely different here in Frederick, but they did solve the issue of flooding pretty well. I wonder how much that project cost compared to what is being estimated for EC.

And it also seems like Frederick was a pretty solveable issue. With EC can you say that it will ever be fixed?

Doesn't look good. Very sad.

#134 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 01:01 PM

Looks like the price tag for flood control is $85M, and it would only sort of work.

 

http://www.baltimore..._medium=twitter



#135 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 01:06 PM

Looks like the price tag for flood control is $85M, and it would only sort of work.

 

http://www.baltimore..._medium=twitter

 

It's still more, not buying it. That $10M number was a joke. Reality settling in for EC, really sucks.



#136 Mike in STL

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 02:48 PM

Lots of rain in the forecast through the next few days. Praying its not a repeat.

 

Anyone familiar with the situation know if EC only floods when there is a heavy rain in a short time, or a lot of rain over a longer period of time. 


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#137 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 05:46 PM

 


#138 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:15 PM

Well, it'll certainly be interesting to see what they come up with.

#139 NewMarketSean

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:52 PM

Good news, but back it up this time.
I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#140 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 01:07 PM

Sounds like they have a plan, but it requires tearing down ten buildings, including Portalli's and the Phoenix Emporium, I think.


Kittleman said that removing the 10 buildings, including those from the Caplan’s building to Maryland Avenue, “will provide the most immediate and impactful benefit,” for Ellicott City.




http://www.baltimore...0823-story.html




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