160 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

It's unthinkable that a main street as historic and just flat out amazing as EC could legitimately be gone. That's just brutal. I really hope they can figure something out. That $10M seems lite to me, but again, with the resources of HowCo/MD, it's definitely not something that can't be done (even if its more like 20-30). If tax dollars are spent though, it has to be a plan that really does work. But it's cool how greed has potentially ruined an awesome community.

Something I was wondering when it comes to the overdevelopment.

If you knew that the overdevelopment would bring in more revenue than what Main Street generates, would the trade off of this likely happening be worth it?

[NewMarketSean]

Development without infrastructure is an epidemic in this state and country. It’s crushed Frederick County, making it another DC bedroom community. It likely killed EC too. They need to start with infrastructure before development and not the other way around.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Something I was wondering when it comes to the overdevelopment.

If you knew that the overdevelopment would bring in more revenue than what Main Street generates, would the trade off of this likely happening be worth it?

Sure, but this isn't Minecraft. Real people and business owners are getting bent royally for awful planning.

[Nigel Tufnel]

If you can actually fix the EC flooding problem for only $10M, then you absolutely do it.  That's peanuts to Howard County.

[SportsGuy]

Sure, but this isn't Minecraft. Real people and business owners are getting bent royally for awful planning.

100% agree.

But people making those decisions don’t care about that.

[mweb08]

This is obviously very sad. I hope everyone is safe and people's lives don't get ruined over this.

 

I was actually recently telling Kelly that we should visit sometime soon, but now it may never be the same. 

 

I don't have enough of a history with EC or knowledge of all the variables to have a strong opinion on what should be done going forward, but based on what's being reported and mentioned in this thread, this is one of the problems with urban sprawl. 

[Pedro Cerrano]

I just can’t believe that after the first flood they couldn’t come up with a fool proof way to prevent this from happening again

Then again, fool proof and government in the same sentence is laughable.

I fear my hometown may be permanently scarred.

[NewMarketSean]

Here’s the thing. Even if the county and state do the work that needs to be done to prevent this flooding from happening again, how do you convince people that it’s fixed? How do you convince people to invest their lives in a place that flooded this bad twice in less than two years? Especially if what I’m hearing is true and that a lot of places downtown were uninsurable?

IMO the things that will move in are the things that can afford the risk...chains. So if local businesses can’t take the risk, national chains will. Starbucks, Subway (think there was one there already) and Jimmy Johns. Forever 21. Yogi Castle. Qdoba. And with that will come sky high rent meaning Ellicott City will look like every generic fucking town center across the rest of the world.

Just my two cents...hope it doesn’t happen...I love that place. Wish I could do something. I’m not on Facebook so if there’s any way to help, let me know.

[Mike in STL]

Here’s the thing. Even if the county and state do the work that needs to be done to prevent this flooding from happening again, how do you convince people that it’s fixed? How do you convince people to invest their lives in a place that flooded this bad twice in less than two years? Especially if what I’m hearing is true and that a lot of places downtown were uninsurable?

IMO the things that will move in are the things that can afford the risk...chains. So if local businesses can’t take the risk, national chains will. Starbucks, Subway (think there was one there already) and Jimmy Johns. Forever 21. Yogi Castle. Qdoba. And with that will come sky high rent meaning Ellicott City will look like every generic fucking town center across the rest of the world.

Just my two cents...hope it doesn’t happen...I love that place. Wish I could do something. I’m not on Facebook so if there’s any way to help, let me know.

I think it would take building something like a wall (not like that) that people can actually see and they can say "this will stop flooding from damaging main street." 

 

New Orleans spent $14Billion on a 30+foot sea wall around the city to stop storm surges from another Katrina flooding the city that sits 12 feet below sea level. (More complex than that, but thats the gist of it). 

 

Not familiar with the geographics of EC, but building a giant wall and saying "this will stop it" will be more promising than any other proposal. 

[RShack]

BSLSeanJester, on 28 May 2018 - 19:51, said:
Here’s the thing. Even if the county and state do the work that needs to be done to prevent this flooding from happening again, how do you convince people that it’s fixed? How do you convince people to invest their lives in a place that flooded this bad twice in less than two years? Especially if what I’m hearing is true and that a lot of places downtown were uninsurable?

People have notoriously short memories about places they want to be... even after major freaking hurricanes knock everything over, people rebuild in exactly the same spot...

If they fix it, buyers will come... and even if they don't fix a damn thing, a lot of buyers will still come, just as soon as they can forget what they don't want to remember...

(BTW, in response to earlier posts which feature the obligatory dissing of gov't, not only is gov't quite capable of taking corrective measures, but it's also uniquely capable... it's the only force in society that can do something like that... the problem isn't the nature of gov't, the problem is that everybody has decided taxes are a bad thing, nobody wants to pay them, so lots of things that matter to lots of people have been completely ignored... as the engineering societies routinely report, the entire nation has had basically no maintenance for 30+ years... however, we are leading the world in tax cuts...

Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the details of local gov't's role in this... am not saying the local decision makers are innocent of negligence, maybe they are, maybe they're not, I know zilch about them... am just saying that even diligent officials who aren't bought cannot fix things without the money to do it with...)

[RShack]

I think it would take building something like a wall (not like that) that people can actually see and they can say "this will stop flooding from damaging main street."

New Orleans spent $14Billion on a 30+foot sea wall around the city to stop storm surges from another Katrina flooding the city that sits 12 feet below sea level. (More complex than that, but thats the gist of it).

Not familiar with the geographics of EC, but building a giant wall and saying "this will stop it" will be more promising than any other proposal.

Civil engineers will know... we don't, but they will... it's what they do....

As I understand it, the problem is that so much rain came down in a big hurry that the creeks couldn't get rid of it fast enough... unless the Patapsco was also high enough to flood Ellicott City, the problem seems to be getting the creek water to the river without the water bulldozing the old town on the way there... various ways to do that, it's a different problem than NOLA has... now, if the river was that high too, it's a different story, but I haven't heard about massive flooding elsewhere, so I'm guessing that's not it...

All this seems to come down to how frequently you think crazy-intense rain like that will happen... it could still be once in a ton of years, the fact that it was 2 events near to each other doesn't mean something has changed... maybe it has, maybe it hasn't...

[NewMarketSean]

There is no "wall" to build. It's not as simple as solution as that. There are several tributaries that dump into Patapsco River, which runs just east of EC, many of which travel directly underneath many buildings in Ellicott City. The development north of the city has allowed for massive run offs that travel down the streets to flood downtown EC. There are no more trees and soil to absorb it. And downtown EC is largely rock, so that's an issue too.

 

I know they are removing many dams in the Patapsco. I wonder if taking out Bloedes dam allows the water to flow more freely, meaning the river by EC doesn't get so backed up. Maybe that doesn't solve the flooding issue but maybe helps alleviate the soup bowl by the train station when the river gets backed up. I'm sure they'll do something, and maybe it'll work. I hope it does. Just seems like such a massive project.

 

Also, the missing person is a friend of my sister's.

[SportsGuy]

My wife knows him too.

Was helping a woman find her cat and then got swept away by the water.

[NewMarketSean]

My wife knows him too.

Was helping a woman find her cat and then got swept away by the water.

 

Yeah I heard that as well. Such a shame.

[Miller192]

There should be an investigation by federal authorities on the planning/zoning board who approved this development.  

[You Play to Win the Game]

There should be an investigation by federal authorities on the planning/zoning board who approved this development.

Agreed, but there won't be.

In my experience in Commercial Real Estate, I'm finding it hard to believe that they weren't aware of the potential impacts.

[Mackus]

Spoke to my father in law last night who is a civil engineer and has worked on tons of projects involving roadways, bridges, and causeways, etc.  He said EC actually collected bids for a culvert at the top of Main Street after the last storm, would've cost about $2M, but all it would've done is redirect some of the water at the top of Main Street (Rogers Ave side) and saved a few of those buildings, the water would've spilled back over and gone down Main Street in much the same way.

 

He also added that even if they installed a state of the art water drainage system and spent every penny in the world, that it wouldn't solve the problem.  Drainage systems don't divert water, they simply hold it and let it out slowly at an appropriate spot.  Even a massive, multiple times larger system than they would've built (if they could have built it) would have filled up and overflowed from this amount of water.  EC is too low on the water table, too close to the river, and there is simply too much runoff to handle all the water.  Maybe it wouldn't have been as much damage, but it still would have been catastrophic damage even if they spent tens upon tens of millions after the last storm to try and stop future flooding.

[SportsGuy]

They have found a body in the Patapsco. Likely the missing person they are looking for. Very sad.

It has also been confirmed that he was trying to save a person who happened to have a cat, not just a cat.

[SportsGuy]

Spoke to my father in law last night who is a civil engineer and has worked on tons of projects involving roadways, bridges, and causeways, etc. He said EC actually collected bids for a culvert at the top of Main Street after the last storm, would've cost about $2M, but all it would've done is redirect some of the water at the top of Main Street (Rogers Ave side) and saved a few of those buildings, the water would've spilled back over and gone down Main Street in much the same way.

He also added that even if they installed a state of the art water drainage system and spent every penny in the world, that it wouldn't solve the problem. Drainage systems don't divert water, they simply hold it and let it out slowly at an appropriate spot. Even a massive, multiple times larger system than they would've built (if they could have built it) would have filled up and overflowed from this amount of water. EC is too low on the water table, too close to the river, and there is simply too much runoff to handle all the water. Maybe it wouldn't have been as much damage, but it still would have been catastrophic damage even if they spent tens upon tens of millions after the last storm to try and stop future flooding.

This makes sense..it really does sound like the overdevelopment is a huge issue here and you can’t turn that back.

This is why I’m saying it makes no sense to keep throwing money at the issue.

[NewMarketSean]

They have found a body in the Patapsco. Likely the missing person they are looking for. Very sad.

It has also been confirmed that he was trying to save a person who happened to have a cat, not just a cat.

 

Ugh, so sad. RIP to him. What a good person.