160 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

Just to clarify something. The 2016 event was a 1 in 1000 year flood event. What that means is that there is a .1% chance of a flood of that magnitude in a given year. If one occurs like in 2016 that doesn't mean another 1000 year event can't occur. The odds of two happening so close though are long.

Regardless it's awful that this has happened again.

 

Probably more common going forward given the construction which developed in the past 20 years around Main Street, making it more easy for flooding to occur.

[NewMarketSean]

Probably more common going forward given the construction which developed in the past 20 years around Main Street, making it more easy for flooding to occur.

Yup. That plays a huge part in the flooding.

Catonsville flooded too apparently.

Global warming is real folks. Alabama is having a tropical storm in May.

This stuff didn’t used to happen.

[SportsGuy]

Absolutely heartbreaking.

[Mark Carver]

One woman quoted on WBAL radio said she spent her life-savings to rebuild, now she's done after 39 years.

[The Epic]

Not to be a jerk (I don't think I am?), but you gotta wonder if rebuilding should be the plan here.

[Mike in STL]

Not to be a jerk (I don't think I am?), but you gotta wonder if rebuilding should be the plan here.

I was thinking the same thing. I think I'd be done. 

[SportsGuy]

Not to be a jerk (I don't think I am?), but you gotta wonder if rebuilding should be the plan here.

I shared this post on FB:

Hi everyone! I want to thank everyone who has been writing/texting me about Ellicott City. I am aware of what is going on. I have been silent on the subject because I have been in a law suit with my insurance company. I still own the two buildings in the center of town that I bought in the 1990's. It was the income that I earned from those buildings that allowed me to change my career. This Ellicott City situation broke my heart two years ago. So much of me went into these buildings. It was all of my energy and all of my bank account for almost 2 years. Within ONE MONTH of the flood, Howard County Zoning and Planning tried to put pressure on us to rebuild. My neighbor and friend John was so stressed by the financial pressures and the building inspector’s threats he fell to his death while trying to make heavy-duty repairs to his building (theater on the corner) on his own. He was close to 70 years old. I never understood the urgency of the rebuild. It made no sense. We hired engineers and geo-techs to conduct studies. Not just on what level of effort would be required make the repairs to the buildings which after one year of study came to $2 million for repairs, but on the exact cause of the damage to the buildings. I had a unique circumstance that I can’t yet get into. On very good advice, I did NOT renovate. I was told that flooding was going to happen again and again, until the county spent $10 million dollars to implement a plan that they had since before the first flood. They knew they had a problem before the problem happened. There isn’t one thing that caused this situation. It was a convergence of several issues from poor planning to overdevelopment to removal of forests that absorbed heavy rains at the top of Ellicott Mills Drive and replacing that forest with a community center and a densely populated apartment home community. The roads and road maintenance and maintenance of water-mains were also part of the issue. They handled a problem that required financial investment, grit and muscle and tough decision making with public relations campaigns. I was never a member of the club over there but now it’s time for the club to step up and accept responsibility for their bad decision-making and accept responsibility for the repair of the mess that they’ve created, not by offering low-interest loans, which I found insulting, but by funding and handling the repair. Being historic and on a waterway with severely damaged sub foundation and foundation makes redevelopment just about impossible. My hope is that the leadership will accept responsibility. There is so much that we should all find troubling about this mess. I have been told repeatedly that the city is exempt from liability. How can this be? They should be held accountable. I appreciate all of the support from each and every one of you. I just got word that another car just landed in the church foundation.

[SportsGuy]

No money should be put into the infrastructure down there.

They have already screwed things up. I feel bad for those business owners but you can’t put money into something that is essentially a lost cause.

To me, EC is done.

[NewMarketSean]

Tough to see it rebound after this. It will never be the same. And it never really was the same after the first flood.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I've seen a number of companies say they won't build back. Seen a few say they would.

Only way I'd consider it if I was an owner there would be if the $10M suggested above is an accurate number, and the County / State invest that into a plan that would significantly reduce further risk.

I think the businesses are going to have a much harder time this time around raising funds for repair... and my understanding is that flood insurance still wasn't available for most / all.

[SportsGuy]

I've seen a number of companies say they won't build back. Seen a few say they would.

Only way I'd consider it if I was an owner there would be if the $10M suggested above is an accurate number, and the County / State invest that into a plan that would significantly reduce further risk.

I think the businesses are going to have a much harder time this time around raising funds for repair... and my understanding is that flood insurance still wasn't available for most / all.

Honestly, I would hate to see my tax dollars go to this.

 

Like I said, I feel awful for those businesses but the damage is done.  Even if you make those improvements, this could still happen again.  It just seems to be a waste of money just so that a few business can open back up.  I'm a small business guy and greatly support them but you still have to do things intelligently and since the county has ignored being smart for years, there is only going to be so much reassurance you can get at this point and its not enough for me to agree with the idea of putting a ton of money into such a small area...again.

[JeremyStrain]

Honestly, I would hate to see my tax dollars go to this.

 

Like I said, I feel awful for those businesses but the damage is done.  Even if you make those improvements, this could still happen again.  It just seems to be a waste of money just so that a few business can open back up.  I'm a small business guy and greatly support them but you still have to do things intelligently and since the county has ignored being smart for years, there is only going to be so much reassurance you can get at this point and its not enough for me to agree with the idea of putting a ton of money into such a small area...again.

 

Yeah I just posted something along these lines in the Rants thread. As soon as Hogan declared the state of emergency, my first instinct was, is that really a good use of resources? Is he doing this for every area in the state that floods?

 

I thought of you right away. If you had a retail front down there, would you invest in a shop down there again knowing what you knew after the FIRST time, let alone after the SECOND? I mean some areas are just too high risk, and like Chris said I'm sure companies aren't covering it for flood now, I'm surprised any did after the first one cause there was so much talk about how high risk of a flood that area is.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'd need to know how much risk would be reduced with that investment, and if that investment is an accurate representation.

$10M between the State (or Howard County alone... one of the richest Counties in the country) isn't a huge investment.

Main Street isn't why there is such a huge tax base in Western Howard County, but it is part of the overall lifestyle.

 

 

OTOH, if it comes back that there is little that can be done to reduce the risk... or that any investment will only do so much, I do think you have to legitimately consider not building back.

[JeremyStrain]

I'd need to know how much risk would be reduced with that investment, and if that investment is an accurate representation.

$10M between the State (or Howard County alone... one of the richest Counties in the country) isn't a huge investment.

Main Street isn't why there is such a huge tax base in Western Howard County, but it is part of the overall lifestyle.

 

 

OTOH, if it comes back that there is little that can be done to reduce the risk... or that any investment will only do so much, I do think you have to legitimately consider not building back.

 

Didn't they do a study after the first major flood? I know I've taken those back roads down there from Catonsville, and it's basically like a ravine that all those rivers/creeks dump into when too much rain happens, just the design of it all now is dangerous.

 

Don't get me wrong, the historic part, the cute small town vibe, I get why people want to spend to keep it around, but if nature is just set up to pour water down there, you're fighting a losing battle.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Didn't they do a study after the first major flood? I know I've taken those back roads down there from Catonsville, and it's basically like a ravine that all those rivers/creeks dump into when too much rain happens, just the design of it all now is dangerous.

 

Don't get me wrong, the historic part, the cute small town vibe, I get why people want to spend to keep it around, but if nature is just set up to pour water down there, you're fighting a losing battle.

 

It's not really nature though.  Prior to '16, the only major flooding was with Hurricane Agnes I believe in the early 70s.

It's the building that has gone up around the community in the last 20 years, taking away some 'natural' protection from floods.

That construction had to be zoned, etc....   I'd wonder if the Main Street community had sign-off on any of that construction. If they did, did they know the increased risks it would bring? If they didn't, are they responsible for the construction that happened around them, which has led to their destruction twice?

 

Ultimately, the question now is... is there anything that can be done construction wise, at a palatable cost... that will severely minimize the chances of this happening again?

(And if they are... why didn't they happen after '16... vs. just encouraging people to build back asap?)

 

FTR, no idea if those studies happened after the '16 flood.

[BSLChrisStoner]

[JeremyStrain]

It's not really nature though.  Prior to '16, the only major flooding was with Hurricane Agnes I believe in the early 70s.

It's the building that has gone up around the community in the last 20 years, taking away some 'natural' protection from floods.

That construction had to be zoned, etc....   I'd wonder if the Main Street community had sign-off on any of that construction. If they did, did they know the increased risks it would bring? If they didn't, are they responsible for the construction that happened around them, which has led to their destruction twice?

 

Ultimately, the question now is... is there anything that can be done construction wise, at a palatable cost... that will severely minimize the chances of this happening again?

(And if they are... why didn't they happen after '16... vs. just encouraging people to build back asap?)

 

FTR, no idea if those studies happened after the '16 flood.

 

Yeah I dunno. I remember saying the first time we took those crazy mountain side roads down to the top of EC, man, this place looks like a dried out waterfall from here. Now like you said the way things have developed and changed, it's kinda funneled the water flow to it.

 

I'm really interested to hear now how much homework they did after the first flood or if they all just wrote it off as a freak event and tried to rebuild ASAP. I mean I knew insurance companies were labeling it as a high flood risk zone and not issuing insurance for it anymore, that would be enough for me to be like nah man...I'll head for higher ground. But like you said, it's recent enough, and there hasn't been a whole lot of coverage about it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do feel for them. As a small business owner having something like that happen is devastating, but at the same time I feel like that's all part of owning a business, you gotta do the homework on where you are looking and gotta consider all angles. I hope they all get made whole, but I also hope they learn their lesson and go somewhere else with that money.

[BSLChrisStoner]

https://www.facebook...&type=3

 

This link provides good background Jeremy.

[JeremyStrain]

https://www.facebook...&type=3

 

This link provides good background Jeremy.

 

Ugh, that's awful. Same kinda thing happened to my neighborhood growing up, much smaller scale. Something as simple as widening the main road in and out behind our house to a 4 lane road changed how water ran and all of our houses started flooding. Adding full on developments like that have to be 10 times worse, especially with that hill there.

[You Play to Win the Game]

It's unthinkable that a main street as historic and just flat out amazing as EC could legitimately be gone. That's just brutal. I really hope they can figure something out. That $10M seems lite to me, but again, with the resources of HowCo/MD, it's definitely not something that can't be done (even if its more like 20-30). If tax dollars are spent though, it has to be a plan that really does work. But it's cool how greed has potentially ruined an awesome community.