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#121 DuffMan

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Posted 13 September 2021 - 08:58 AM

Also if Halo hadn't been implemented Hamilton could really have been in trouble in yesterday's crash.



#122 DuffMan

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Posted 25 October 2021 - 12:17 PM

Over 400k in Austin over the weekend and 140k plus for the U.S. GP on Sunday.  Verstappen eked out a win over Hamilton to stay atop the points standings.



#123 DuffMan

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Posted 25 November 2021 - 08:35 PM

2 races to go in the F1 season and it's coming down to the wire.  I really hope that Hamilton can pull it out.  Early on in the season I thought I would like to see Max win, for something different, but he's come across as a bit of a jerk all season.



#124 DuffMan

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Posted 06 December 2021 - 07:25 AM

That race in Saudi Arabia was a wild one to say the least.

 

All tied up  with one race to go!



#125 mweb08

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Posted 12 December 2021 - 11:23 PM

So that was crazy and to me, something that makes me less likely to continue to follow Formula One.

 

 

 

The Ringer: Max Verstappen’s Formula 1 Championship Was the Perfect Encapsulation of a Wild F1 Season
https://www.theringe...-lewis-hamilton



#126 DuffMan

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Posted 13 December 2021 - 11:27 AM

So that was crazy and to me, something that makes me less likely to continue to follow Formula One.

 

 

 

The Ringer: Max Verstappen’s Formula 1 Championship Was the Perfect Encapsulation of a Wild F1 Season
https://www.theringe...-lewis-hamilton

That's like saying you are going to stop watching the Orioles because of the Jeffrey Maier game.

 

Sucks how it went down and I hate that Hamilton lost, heck Verstappen even tried running him off on the first lap again, but no way would I stop watching.



#127 mweb08

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Posted 13 December 2021 - 11:49 AM

That's like saying you are going to stop watching the Orioles because of the Jeffrey Maier game.

Sucks how it went down and I hate that Hamilton lost, heck Verstappen even tried running him off on the first lap again, but no way would I stop watching.


Well I'm a F1 novice, so it's not like I have this ingrained into me like the Orioles have been.

I also don't think the analogy is quite right. The Maier play was a horrible call. This however reveals a fundamental flaw imo in the sport itself.

What happened in F1 is without a parallel that I can think of in baseball or any other sport (maybe you can think of some). Off the top of my head, I can't think of another sport that takes away almost sure victory in the manner that happened yesterday.

Now while the ultimate decision that was made is debatable, the fact that it was even an option is absurd to me. If someone has an insurmountable lead, that shouldn't be completely wiped away because someone out of contention crashed. Then there's the tire change part of it.

I want to watch sport that is fair in nature. This one already has plenty of issue with certain teams/drivers having a huge edge over others. Now add rules that have no bearing in fair competition and is so consequential, and that's potentially a bridge too far for me.

#128 DuffMan

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 02:21 PM

Well I'm a F1 novice, so it's not like I have this ingrained into me like the Orioles have been.

I also don't think the analogy is quite right. The Maier play was a horrible call. This however reveals a fundamental flaw imo in the sport itself.

What happened in F1 is without a parallel that I can think of in baseball or any other sport (maybe you can think of some). Off the top of my head, I can't think of another sport that takes away almost sure victory in the manner that happened yesterday.

What about the non PI call in the Saints-Rams game, that was egregious.

Now while the ultimate decision that was made is debatable, the fact that it was even an option is absurd to me. If someone has an insurmountable lead, that shouldn't be completely wiped away because someone out of contention crashed. Then there's the tire change part of it.

A full caution is something that is in all of motorsports, is it unfair to the leader yes but you can't have these cars flying around out there while it is unsafe and that results in the field being bunched up.  Not sure what you are getting at with the tires, the tire strategy is a big component of every race.  I finally finished watching this one and there were a couple of opportunities earlier in the race  for Lewis to pit for tires.  They opted to stay out,  that was their choice.

I want to watch sport that is fair in nature. This one already has plenty of issue with certain teams/drivers having a huge edge over others. Now add rules that have no bearing in fair competition and is so consequential, and that's potentially a bridge too far for me.

While I agree certain teams/drivers have an edge, every sport has rules that may seem dumb or arbitrary but the rules are the rules.  Doesn't mean they can't be changed.  In regards to fairness there is major rule change coming to the aerodynamics to the cars with the intent of greater parity across F1.   Whether that happens or not remains to be seen.

See bolded for my responses.

 

It is definitely disappointing how it went down.  Both teams and drivers were top notch and either won would have been deserving.   There is still a chance the result could be overturned if Mercedes appeals, but honestly do they want that, would fans want the W to come that way?  Both drivers had luck/breaks/misfortune this season and it just happened to come into play at the end of the season.  

Having said all that will I be watching again next year, absolutely.



#129 Mike in STL

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 03:37 PM

Some American representation in F1 would be nice.

And ditch the push to pass button.
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#130 Nigel Tufnel

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 04:52 PM

Jalopnik wasn't happy.

 

After Abu Dhabi, Formula 1 Is No Longer A Sport. It's A Circus. (jalopnik.com)


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#131 mweb08

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 08:10 PM

See bolded for my responses.

 

It is definitely disappointing how it went down.  Both teams and drivers were top notch and either won would have been deserving.   There is still a chance the result could be overturned if Mercedes appeals, but honestly do they want that, would fans want the W to come that way?  Both drivers had luck/breaks/misfortune this season and it just happened to come into play at the end of the season.  

Having said all that will I be watching again next year, absolutely.

 

I am sorry, but a horrible no call in a sport with very subjective rules is not even close to the same thing that happened here. 

 

This would be like if a team was up by 3 touchdowns, and the lights went out like they did at the Ravens SB, and then for some reason the other team was just given a first and goal from the 1 opportunity to win the game when they effectively had no chance otherwise. 

 

That's how crazy this is in terms of fairness.

 

You like track and field, right? Well this would be a more clean analogy: a runner is dominating the 10,000 meter event, but then a person who is out of contention faints and needs medical attention, so then with just a few hundred meters left, they decide to let the 2nd place guy go in front of several lapped runners to have him placed right behind the leader who was substantially ahead, oh and somehow he ends up with a huge equipment advantage to boot. 

 

Anyway, they shouldn't bunch the fields with the cautions. If people earn substantial leads they shouldn't get screwed due to a caution.

 

As for the tires, yes I know that's a big part of the strategy. Mercedes clearly had the right strategy on that front since they were going to cruise to victory despite the great teamwork by Perez that closed like 7 seconds off Hamilton's lead and a different caution allowing for a cheap box for a desperate Max to try to make a run late, a run that clearly was not going to be close to enough to pull it out. What I am referring to though is that Max was able to get a costless tire change during the final caution while apparently it would have been a significant risk for Lewis to attempt that. That of course led to Max on new soft tires vs Lewis on worn hard tires for the manufactured final lap.

 

And that last line is another way to highlight the difference here vs egregious calls in other sports. This was manufacturing excitement and ultimately a victory for Max. The two horrible calls you have mentioned, are just that, horrible calls, they're not intentional efforts in judgement and/or rules meant to alter the destined result.

 

Also, for a horrible call to matter in other sports, the game has to actually be close. This was not that. This was the O's being up 10-1 when that db kid stuck his glove out and then the umps decided to make that worth 9 runs, and then put the winning run on third while skipping to the bottom of the 9th and then letting the Yanks choose their batters, while forcing the O's to leave in a mop-up reliever. 

 

Btw, Mercedes filed two appeals on Sunday and both were denied. There's the international appeal still though. I don't know much about the F1 appeal process though.


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#132 mweb08

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 08:23 PM

Jalopnik wasn't happy.

After Abu Dhabi, Formula 1 Is No Longer A Sport. It's A Circus. (jalopnik.com)


Good article. Regardless of the is auto racing a sport debate, it's hard for me to consider it a real sport after this.

He also chimed in with another sporting analogy to what just happened:

To me, it marked a total disregard for the integrity of F1. It was the same as if a tennis umpire had shouted “next point winner” when one player was two sets up. After a year of close racing, it reduced the whole championship to a gimmick.



That's how extreme you have to go to find an apt analogy.

And it's the type of thing producers do when manufacturing reality TV drama rather than sporting bodies do. Maybe 'Drive to Survive' has influenced them a little too much.

#133 Mike in STL

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:59 PM

The same two drivers finished 1-2 in 14 out of 22 races. Including the last six races in a row. 

 

Seems like the problem is it's set up to be a two car world, and the other 18 cars serve no real purpose. 

 

When it's set up for two drivers to basically own the entire season, seems ripe for scripting it to come down to not only the last race, but the last lap of the race.

 

From what I gather, the race director has the power to treat the rules like suggestions. It should have ended under caution, but thats not entertaining is it? Seems like your typical shady international sporting body at work. 

 

Hate to say F1 should take a page from NASCAR cause they are completely different. But easy way to keep races from ending under caution is to have a two lap "overtime" if you will. Lapped cars in NASCAR give way to those battling for the win. So there should be no repositioning lapped traffic. When the green drops, a competitor comes up on them, lapped cars just slide out of the way because sportsmanship. If 5 lapped cars were between Max and Lewis, Max should have passed them all by turn 2 anyway.


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#134 mweb08

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 06:59 AM

The same two drivers finished 1-2 in 14 out of 22 races. Including the last six races in a row.

Seems like the problem is it's set up to be a two car world, and the other 18 cars serve no real purpose.

When it's set up for two drivers to basically own the entire season, seems ripe for scripting it to come down to not only the last race, but the last lap of the race.

From what I gather, the race director has the power to treat the rules like suggestions. It should have ended under caution, but thats not entertaining is it? Seems like your typical shady international sporting body at work.

Hate to say F1 should take a page from NASCAR cause they are completely different. But easy way to keep races from ending under caution is to have a two lap "overtime" if you will. Lapped cars in NASCAR give way to those battling for the win. So there should be no repositioning lapped traffic. When the green drops, a competitor comes up on them, lapped cars just slide out of the way because sportsmanship. If 5 lapped cars were between Max and Lewis, Max should have passed them all by turn 2 anyway.


The same rule applies in F1 regarding lapped cars.

I agree that it's far from ideal that two drivers dominate so much. I mean if anyone (other than Max's teammate) was in a competitive third place in this race, Max wouldn't have been able to pit twice late in the race with no fear of losing position. Plus, last week his 10 second penalty would have actually meant something.

That said, a few other drivers were often in the mix this year led by the teammates of Lewis and Max while the Ferrari and McLaren drivers had their moments as well.

#135 DuffMan

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 07:05 AM

Weber you make some good points, it's a shitty outcome for sure but I still plan on watching.

 

Having said that Mercedes can still appeal, do you want them to?  Winning the title through an appeals process feels almost as bad as how it was won this weekend. 



#136 mweb08

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 10:44 AM

Weber you make some good points, it's a shitty outcome for sure but I still plan on watching.

Having said that Mercedes can still appeal, do you want them to? Winning the title through an appeals process feels almost as bad as how it was won this weekend.


I'll probably end up still watching too, but I only have like a half a season's plus the reality show level of investment while I assume you have a lot more.

Yes, I would want them to do that. I want the just result. Yes though, it would be far worse than if the right result happened in the moment. Kinda like when college teams have past titles vacated due to cheating, but to me, this would be much more righteous than that.

#137 DuffMan

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Posted 21 December 2021 - 09:12 AM

https://www.theringe...-lewis-hamilton

 

Despite suggesting before the race that he wouldn’t, Masi could have issued a red flag following Nicholas Latifi’s crash on Lap 52. If he had, all cars would have been required to return to the pit lane and allowed to fit fresh tires for when the race resumed. Instead of a contentious one-lap shootout for the championship, we would have been treated to a six-lap sprint that, whoever had won, would have been completely free of controversy.

In hindsight I think this would have been the best option to go with.



#138 Mike in STL

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Posted 31 December 2021 - 06:44 PM

Been watching “Drive to Survive” on Netflix. Really well done.

Has me interested in following along with a season, but on the other hand, it’s clearly a sport where 15 drivers fight for 5th, and are damn happy to be the “best of the rest”.

Hass would be a team I could root for being the only American inclusion in the sport. But they have less of a chance finding a podium than the Orioles of making the playoffs this year. The cars seem to definitely make the driver. Lewis Hamilton couldn’t win a race in one of the Hass or Williams cars, which kind of diminishes what would look like as dominant a career as anyone in any sport.

I guess if your a big fan of Mercedes or Red Bull, maybe Ferrari, it’s an exciting season. Otherwise what’s the point?
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#139 mweb08

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 01:06 PM

Been watching “Drive to Survive” on Netflix. Really well done.

Has me interested in following along with a season, but on the other hand, it’s clearly a sport where 15 drivers fight for 5th, and are damn happy to be the “best of the rest”.

Hass would be a team I could root for being the only American inclusion in the sport. But they have less of a chance finding a podium than the Orioles of making the playoffs this year. The cars seem to definitely make the driver. Lewis Hamilton couldn’t win a race in one of the Hass or Williams cars, which kind of diminishes what would look like as dominant a career as anyone in any sport.

I guess if your a big fan of Mercedes or Red Bull, maybe Ferrari, it’s an exciting season. Otherwise what’s the point?

 

The competitiveness or lack thereof is certainly a huge problem. I think you overstate it here some, but maybe that was intentional hyperbole. 

 

However, is college football all that different in this regard? Like what's the point of being a Maryland fan?

 

Also, through watching the reality show, I would think that most people would end up developing several rooting interests such as picking sides between Mercedes and Red Bull, picking a few drivers you like and don't like, maybe having a feisty team that you root for like Ferrari or McLaren and then going with the American team in hopes that they'll get better at some point. 

 

I certainly did that through watching the show and then watching the second half or so of last season. Now I don't care all that much where a driver was born or a team is from, so perhaps it was easier for me.  

 

Personally, it was an exciting season (or half season for me), but I do share some of your concerns. Plus, as was hashed out here, I've really been soured on "the sport" due to the manufacturing of a result in the final race. I have to put quotes around sport because I don't know of any real sports where that happens so egregiously.



#140 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 01:55 PM

The competitiveness or lack thereof is certainly a huge problem. I think you overstate it here some, but maybe that was intentional hyperbole.

However, is college football all that different in this regard? Like what's the point of being a Maryland fan?

Also, through watching the reality show, I would think that most people would end up developing several rooting interests such as picking sides between Mercedes and Red Bull, picking a few drivers you like and don't like, maybe having a feisty team that you root for like Ferrari or McLaren and then going with the American team in hopes that they'll get better at some point.

I certainly did that through watching the show and then watching the second half or so of last season. Now I don't care all that much where a driver was born or a team is from, so perhaps it was easier for me.

Personally, it was an exciting season (or half season for me), but I do share some of your concerns. Plus, as was hashed out here, I've really been soured on "the sport" due to the manufacturing of a result in the final race. I have to put quotes around sport because I don't know of any real sports where that happens so egregiously.


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