202 replies to this topic

[Mike in STL]

The competitiveness or lack thereof is certainly a huge problem. I think you overstate it here some, but maybe that was intentional hyperbole.

However, is college football all that different in this regard? Like what's the point of being a Maryland fan?

Also, through watching the reality show, I would think that most people would end up developing several rooting interests such as picking sides between Mercedes and Red Bull, picking a few drivers you like and don't like, maybe having a feisty team that you root for like Ferrari or McLaren and then going with the American team in hopes that they'll get better at some point.

I certainly did that through watching the show and then watching the second half or so of last season. Now I don't care all that much where a driver was born or a team is from, so perhaps it was easier for me.

Personally, it was an exciting season (or half season for me), but I do share some of your concerns. Plus, as was hashed out here, I've really been soured on "the sport" due to the manufacturing of a result in the final race. I have to put quotes around sport because I don't know of any real sports where that happens so egregiously.

I don’t think I was being too hyperbolic. It was noticeable when Ricardo left Red Bull for Renault, his performance got worse. When Racing Force (the pink cars?) built their car to mimic the Mercedes to the point it looked like a carbon copy, they got better. Of course the series doesn’t cover every race, or every angle, and maybe it hammed it up to make for good television.

I shouldn’t take anything away from Hamilton and Verstappen and the like because I’m ignorant, but the series at least insinuates the cars make the drivers. I looked at this past seasons standings and saw Hass didn’t record a point. So both drivers, never recorded a top 10? And one of the drivers is the son of a legend and a Formula 2 champion. That’s not nobody behind the wheel. Hass’ cars must be garbage.

College Football is a different animal, but I get it. Maryland, yeah. I don’t set the bar for success as making one of these bowl games that the players don’t even care about like the Pinstripe Bowl. But Cincinnati, Wake Forest until the last couple weeks of the season. There is always some surprises. Maryland has wins over Michigan and Penn State within the decade. That’s never going to happen for the Hass’ and the Williams’. Also people either root for a school because it’s their alma mater, or the area they are from, or you grew up in a Maryland house and were forced to. Kinda like Italians obviously love team Ferrari.

[DuffMan]

Obviously the Cars are a huge part of it, but the drivers play a major role. Too look at how dominant Hamilton and Verstappen were to their respective teammates. Same cars, same engines and yet almost always Lewis and Max were better than the 2nd car. Yes sometimes pit strategy plays a part in it, but those 2 are the best of the best.

[mweb08]

I don’t think I was being too hyperbolic. It was noticeable when Ricardo left Red Bull for Renault, his performance got worse. When Racing Force (the pink cars?) built their car to mimic the Mercedes to the point it looked like a carbon copy, they got better. Of course the series doesn’t cover every race, or every angle, and maybe it hammed it up to make for good television.

I shouldn’t take anything away from Hamilton and Verstappen and the like because I’m ignorant, but the series at least insinuates the cars make the drivers. I looked at this past seasons standings and saw Hass didn’t record a point. So both drivers, never recorded a top 10? And one of the drivers is the son of a legend and a Formula 2 champion. That’s not nobody behind the wheel. Hass’ cars must be garbage.

College Football is a different animal, but I get it. Maryland, yeah. I don’t set the bar for success as making one of these bowl games that the players don’t even care about like the Pinstripe Bowl. But Cincinnati, Wake Forest until the last couple weeks of the season. There is always some surprises. Maryland has wins over Michigan and Penn State within the decade. That’s never going to happen for the Hass’ and the Williams’. Also people either root for a school because it’s their alma mater, or the area they are from, or you grew up in a Maryland house and were forced to. Kinda like Italians obviously love team Ferrari.

The 15 drivers competing for 5th was hyperbolic.

Yes, Haas is currently a joke and may be one until they leave F1. They aren't the equivalent to Cincinnati or Maryland at the moment, they are more like Troy at the moment. However, I'd bet on Haas or Williams or a team that doesn't currently exist winning a constructors championship in the next 25 years over Maryland, Wake, or even Cincinnati winning a national championship during that same time. Williams for instance actually used to be great in the 90s.

But again, I agree with you that the lack of competition is a huge problem. Just like in college football though.

There's some optimism that next year's rule changes will help with that though. There's also some belief that Haas basically tanked this year to prepare for the changes that are coming next year.

As for the drivers importance relative to the cars, yeah, there's a lot to that. I'm far from an expert on this, but what I will say is that it's not all the car. First off, the better teams are able to attract the best drivers. Beyond that, the most clear way we can see that it's far from just being about the car is by comparing teammates. Lewis was much better than Bottas and Max had an even larger gap to his teammate, Perez.

But yes, no one could win in a Haas or Williams' car this year.

[Mike in STL]

But with the teammates thing, don’t the second drivers have to play defense for the leader? Not always, they want to win too. But Bottas I feel like alluded to that in one of the episodes. He was pissed one race when he felt his car was stronger and Toto told him to maintain his 2nd place pace, keep the Red Bull behind him.

Again, I probably shouldn’t diminish Hamilton or Verstappens ability. But it would be interesting to see them on a level playing field, that’s all.

[mweb08]

But with the teammates thing, don’t the second drivers have to play defense for the leader? Not always, they want to win too. But Bottas I feel like alluded to that in one of the episodes. He was pissed one race when he felt his car was stronger and Toto told him to maintain his 2nd place pace, keep the Red Bull behind him.

Again, I probably shouldn’t diminish Hamilton or Verstappens ability. But it would be interesting to see them on a level playing field, that’s all.

That happens to an extent at times, but if there wasn't such a clear difference in the performance of the drivers, the teams wouldn't sometimes ask the lesser teammate to sacrifice because there wouldn't be a lesser teammate.

[RShack]

Obviously the Cars are a huge part of it, but the drivers play a major role. Too look at how dominant Hamilton and Verstappen were to their respective teammates. Same cars, same engines and yet almost always Lewis and Max were better than the 2nd car. Yes sometimes pit strategy plays a part in it, but those 2 are the best of the best.

 

F1 is mainly about the cars... IndyCar is mainly about the drivers...

 

The dominance of Merc during the current formula masked how good Lewis really is... we saw a display of how great he is during the last 4 races of the season. once Merc finally figured out how to overcome the rule change that hurt them (and Aston) far worse than others... in other words, it helped Red Bull...

[DuffMan]

F1 has fired Masi as race director

 

https://www.espn.com...i-investigation

 

Good news there will be a Virtual Race Control room to help handle these moves, bad news it's already being compared to VAR.

 

 

In other news the new season of Drive to Survive is about a month away.  I can't wait for that one!!

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ringer: The 27 Most Influential People of the 2022 Formula 1 Season

[DuffMan]

Really want to see Norris get a W this season

[Mike in STL]

Is it just me or do F1 teams retire their cars far too easily? Feel like from watching the Netflix show there are times the drivers car has a slight problem, still drivable, and they are told to retire it.

Saw Bottas had a flat tire in the Qatar race, he drove it back to the pits and retired. Change the tire and get those points! NASCAR drivers will go 100 laps down, drive the car with no hood no fenders at 3/4 the speed, if it means finishing and being 10 spots ahead of those who didn’t finish.

[glenn__davis]

I'm by no means an expert, but stock car racing has to be considerably safer than F1/open wheel.  Those F1 cars are engineered right on the edge of what they can do, so any minor problem becomes a safety issue.  I wouldn't want to be driving at the speed they do with any questions at all about my equipment.

 

NASCAR - yeah, it's dangerous when compared to driving in your neighborhood, but they've got so many safety features at this point that it takes a perfect confluence of events for serious injury.

[Mike in STL]

Hamilton struggling this year. What gives?

[DuffMan]

Hamilton struggling this year. What gives?

His car is crap.

 

Mercedes in general isn't up to snuff right now.  The new rules and regulations that went into effect this season seem to have brought about some of that unpredictability F1 was looking for.

[Mike in STL]

His car is crap.

Mercedes in general isn't up to snuff right now. The new rules and regulations that went into effect this season seem to have brought about some of that unpredictability F1 was looking for.

But his teammate Russell is doing ok though, right? Large gap between the two at least in this last race.

What are some of the new rules? Meant to narrow the gap between the haves (Mercedes, Red Bull) and have nots (Williams, Hass)? As a noob who griped about it being seemingly a two horse race, seeing other teams in the mix is a welcome sight. Though if Max didn’t wreck twice it’d probably be a one horse race.

[DuffMan]

But his teammate Russell is doing ok though, right? Large gap between the two at least in this last race.

What are some of the new rules? Meant to narrow the gap between the haves (Mercedes, Red Bull) and have nots (Williams, Hass)? As a noob who griped about it being seemingly a two horse race, seeing other teams in the mix is a welcome sight. Though if Max didn’t wreck twice it’d probably be a one horse race.

Russell is doing better yes, but he's still behind the leaders so far.   I guess Russell has a better handle on what the car can do at this point than Lewis.  Russell got banged up in yesterday's race, the cars have been having an issue called porpoising and it was so bad yesterday that he was dealing with chest and back pain.

 

The two biggest changes this year are the new aerodynamics rules enforced on the cars I'm not smart enough to tell you what specifically they are but they clearly are having an impact.  The other big one is MONEY.  There are now limits to what the teams can spend, so now the big boys can't simply spend their way out of these issues.

 

As far as Max goes, don't expect him to run away with this (at least I hope not).   Ferrari seems legit this year and  should be able to challenge Red Bull.  Teams are still finding their way, I would keep an eye on McLaren and still wouldn't bury Mercedes just yet (but it doesn't look good).

 

As far as Haas goes, they've already scored more points in 3 races than they have in years

 

 

Next race is in Miami, looking forward to that one.

[DuffMan]

https://www.espn.com...ilton-bad-imola

 

Mike here's a really good break down in some of the reasons for the big gap between Lewis and Russell this past week.

[DuffMan]

F1 in Miami!  Practice starts today.

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ringer: Into the Chaotic World of the American F1 Boom

 

The Miami Grand Prix Set New Levels of Spectacle, Even for Formula One

[DuffMan]

https://twitter.com/...gJLeRo2-fw&s=19

Scary start today in Silverstone. Thank goodness for Halo, because otherwise Zhou may not have been so fortunate

[Mike in STL]

https://twitter.com/...gJLeRo2-fw&s=19

Scary start today in Silverstone. Thank goodness for Halo, because otherwise Zhou may not have been so fortunate

Been making it a point to watch since the Netflix series is so good. That was the bast race this year.

And glad Zhou was okay. Scary stuff.