411 replies to this topic

[bnickle]

17 is ridiculous. Of course, you can put some PED users in while keeping others out and not getting to 10 players. Bonds and Clemens are on a different level from all the other known PED guys.

Bonds
Clemens
Griffey
Piazza
Mussina

[mweb08]

17 is ridiculous. Of course, you can put some PED users in while keeping others out and not getting to 10 players. Bonds and Clemens are on a different level from all the other known PED guys.


Bonds

Clemens

Piazza

Mussina

Why no Griffey?

Also curious why you're leaving off Bagwell and Schilling among others.

[DJ MC]

17 is ridiculous. Of course, you can put some PED users in while keeping others out and not getting to 10 players. Bonds and Clemens are on a different level from all the other known PED guys.

Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Mussina

 

 

Edmunds

Kent

McGwire

Schilling

Walker

 

I also had Smith and Hoffman on the 17, but I'm not sure I'd vote for them. So call it 15, and I'll call it an entirely valid 15.

[bnickle]

Why no Griffey?

Also curious why you're leaving off Bagwell and Schilling among others.

Griffey missing was a brainfart Definitely in. Bagwell is close for me. Could be swayed.

[DJ MC]

Griffey missing was a brainfart Definitely in. Bagwell is close for me. Could be swayed.

 

Four-time All Star. NL MVP with two other top-three finishes. Rookie of the Year. 449 home runs and 2300 hits in fifteen years. Had an eleven-year stretch where his lowest OPS was .894 and lowest OPS+ was 128. 80 WAR. Won a Gold Glove and was very good defensively. 200-plus stolen bases at a 72% rate as a first baseman.

 

He was arguably the best player in baseball in 1994, and I'd argue he's the second-best first baseman in NL history after Pujols. And he retired early, not sticking around to pad his numbers at all.

[Russ]

 

Jeff Bagwell (inner circle guy, not sure where the debate is coming from.  Especially from the guys who are okay with steroid users.  I think he used, personally.  As certain as I can be without seeing him inject himself.  I don't give a shit about that.)

Barry Bonds

Roger Clemens

Ken Griffey Jr.

Mike Mussina

Mike Piazza (another inner-circle guy)

Tim Raines

 

 

I don't care if you used, but you're going to be judged against your contemporaries.

[DJ MC]

Posnanski: Bad Process - Ken Griffey should be a unanimous hall of famer, but he won't be--for the sake of consistency

 

But it is annoying. How in the world did someone not vote for Frank Robinson? For Mickey Mantle? For Cal Ripken? That question cuts to the bone of an organization I’m very much a part of, the Baseball Writers Association of America (BBWAA). How can we claim to be the best arbiter for the Hall of Fame when 15 among us didn’t even vote for Greg Maddux?

[JonBernhardt]

It's really insulting the changes they made to basically push Tim Raines off the ballot as soon as possible while grandfathering in a lot of other guys for their full 15 years. I've had a whole lot of problems with how the BBWAA has handled this stuff -- good on them for starting to prune the guys with a vote who have been covering golf since 1989 from the voting rolls, but come on. The ten player limit has to go.

 

Here's how I voted (unofficially) last year.

 

That said:

 

Bagwell

Bonds

Clemens

Griffey, Jr.

Schilling

E. Martinez

Mussina

Piazza

Raines

Sheffield

 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Sports Illustrated: Breaking down first-year candidates for Hall of Fame: Who will get in?

[DJ MC]

Chris mentioned this in the Winter Meetings thread, but I thought I would bring it over here.

 

http://baseballhall....-voting-results

 

No pre-1947 candidates were elected. Doc Adams received ten of 16 votes; 12 were needed.

 

I'm surprised that none of the owners received much support. Sam Breadon was the owner of the Cardinals who brought in Branch Rickey and allowed him to build the original farm system. And Chris von der Ahe was an incredible personality who helped establish St. Louis as a baseball town in the first place, and was essentially Steinbrenner 50 years before the Boss was even born.

[DJ MC]

Posnanski: Trevor Hoffman, the Hall of Fame, and Game Winning RBIs

 

And now: Let’s say people use the GWRBI to help determine if a player belongs in the Hall of Fame. Say: Fred McGriff. He has a borderline Hall of Fame case (last year, 13 percent of the vote). Now, let’s add his 200 Game Winning RBIs — more than Mike Schmidt, Ken Griffey or Roberto Clemente — to his case. What if that made all the difference. What if, based entirely on GWRBI, his Hall of Fame percentage skyrocketed to 65 or 70 or even 75 percent. That would be weird, right?

 

Now, consider that the statistic we’re really talking about here is not the GWRBI.

 

It’s the save.

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: Mark McGwire's Hall of Fame chances: Is it a lost cause?

http://www.cbssports...it-a-lost-cause

[DJ MC]

Sweetspot: One more crazy note about relief pitchers and the Hall of Fame

 

So here are the Hall of Famers the BBWAA has elected for players who played the bulk of their careers in the 1970s or later, sorted by position...

 

...

 

This is crazy. Relief pitchers aren't as valuable as other positions and they aren't considered as valuable by teams. That's the root of my argument. How do we know this? They don't get paid as much money as the top stars at other positions. We shouldn't be electing more relief pitchers than other positions; we should be electing fewer. Or, to put it another way: The BBWAA isn't electingenough players at other positions.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Sports on Earth: What My HOF Ballot Would Look Like

http://www.sportsone...-piazza-bagwell

[BSLChrisStoner]

Murray Chass on Baseball: A NAME OF SHAME AND THE HALL OF FAME

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=9701

 

 

The absolute worst.

[Russ]

Murray Chass on Baseball: A NAME OF SHAME AND THE HALL OF FAME
http://www.murraychass.com/?p=9701
 
 
The absolute worst.

I'm dumber for having read that.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'm dumber for having read that.

 

That guy has a HOF ballot.

[Pedro Cerrano]

It made me LOL just because I know it will drive you guys bonkers.

[SportsGuy]

Olney has been crushing the writers lately.

[mweb08]

Who I'd vote for:

 

Bonds

Clemens

Griffey

Bagwell

Piazza

Schilling

Mussina

Raines

McGwire

Edgar