232 replies to this topic

[PD24]

Does anyone have any logic to believe that a guy like Frost would stay and grow with the program? 

[BSLMikeLowe]

I disagree about Saban as well. Why do you think he only cares about the next job. Labeling coaches as selfish really strikes a nerve with me, so I'm a bit more passionate and strong-minded with this debate.

 

Let's look at Nick Saban....

 

He coached at Toledo and had an offer from Mich St. Who here wouldn't make that jump? 

 

Then he went from the Big 10 to LSU, one of the storied schools in the best conference in the sport. Who here wouldn't make that jump?

Then he went to the NFL. Again, who wouldn't do that?

When he didn't have a franchise QB and felt that the NFL wasn't for him, he went back to Bama, and has been there for 10 years.

 

So where in there did Saban do something that any other coach or any employee in any business wouldn't do? 

 

The way he left the Dolphins was sleazy. I don't have any issues with the way he departed any of his previous jobs. There's other things I don't care for with regard to Saban, but it has nothing to do with his desire to take advantage of a better job offer.

[PD24]

BTW - how pissed must Huskers fans be that they hired Mike freaking Riley instead of Scott Frost? 

[BSLMikeLowe]

Does anyone have any logic to believe that a guy like Frost would stay and grow with the program? 

 

Frost, or anyone like him with similar big-time aspirations won't stay at MD long. He'll either fail and get fired, or he'll be successful and move on. The notion that the latter is a bad thing that should prevent you from hiring a guy you think can meet expectations is silly.

 

And none of it has anything to do with why I have no interest in Lane Kiffin.

[DJ MC]

Tennessee since Kiffin: 6-7, 5-7, 5-7, 5-7, 7-6, 2-3 (so far). Oh, and USC canned him, and his replacements went 7-2 and won a bowl.

 

Why would he be any different than Edsall: good recruiter, bad coach?

[PD24]

The way he left the Dolphins was sleazy. I don't have any issues with the way he departed any of his previous jobs. There's other things I don't care for with regard to Saban, but it has nothing to do with his desire to take advantage of a better job offer.

 

Fair enough. I appreciate your insight. I will say though, if you sit down and analyze what really happened, they asked him while his teams were still playing games if he had interest in the Bama job...as bad as it was to deny it and then take the job, if would have been much worse had he said yes while the Dolphins had 3 games left. I guess he could have said no comment, but that's pretty much just as bad as saying yes. 

[PD24]

Frost, or anyone like him with similar big-time aspirations won't stay at MD long. He'll either fail and get fired, or he'll be successful and move on. The notion that the latter is a bad thing that should prevent you from hiring a guy you think can meet expectations is silly.

 

And none of it has anything to do with why I have no interest in Lane Kiffin.

 

Yeah I was responding to Zach. He said he would rather have someone like Frost that could grow with the program as opposed to a guy like Kiffin who would leave the first chance he could.

[mweb08]

Lane Kiffin is 40 years old. You can't get much younger.

I also have news for you guys. I'm totally with you that UMD has a lot going for them, but if Scott Frost comes and turns the program around, he's not sticking around. MD is going to be a stepping zone for anyone not named Ralph Friedgen or Randy Edsall, basically. At least for a while. And that's okay. 

 

Of course.

 

Yes, if Lane did a great job, chances are a better program would offer him a job and he'd bolt. The same goes for most coaches, though, especially younger ones.

 

If one of your biggest concerns is that a coach will do such a good job that a bigger program will hire him, that's not that much of a concern IMO. He'd raise the profile of MD in the process and MD would be in a better position when it comes time to hire a new coach.

[BSLZackKiesel]

Can you give me an example of someone coming to a stepping stone school at a young age and "growing with the program?"

Dan Mullen - Mississippi State. Hired when he was 36, been there for 6 years, grew the program. Has had offers from bigger programs like Florida, has stayed in Starkville.

 

Bob Stoops - Oklahoma. Hired when he was 39, been there for 16 years, grew the program in a big way.

 

Mike Gundy - Oklahoma State. Hired as OC when he was 34, HC when he was 39. Been there since 2001.

 

Gary Patterson - TCU. Hired when he was 40, been there for 15 years.

 

Kirk Ferentz - Iowa. Hired when he was 44, been there for 16 years.

 

Pat Fitzgerald - Northwestern. Hired to the staff at 26, head coach at 31. Been there for 14 years.

 

Bronco Mendenhall - BYU. Hired to staff at 37, head coach at 39. Been there for 12 years.

[PD24]

Tennessee since Kiffin: 6-7, 5-7, 5-7, 5-7, 7-6, 2-3 (so far). Oh, and USC canned him, and his replacements went 7-2 and won a bowl.

 

Why would he be any different than Edsall: good recruiter, bad coach?

 

I'm confused how Tennessee's record since Kiffin has anything to do with how good of a job he did? He went 7-6 his first year at UT after they were bad enough to fire Fulmer. A lot of his recruits followed him to USC. You don't go 7-6 at UT and 10-2 at USC by being a bad coach. 

[Mike in STL]

I hope MD just hires the best guy for the job. If he stays for two years and jumps to a premier program, but in those two years gets MD back to being a top 25 program (first goal) and challenging for a Big Ten title (second goal)...then thanks for the contribution. Thanks for making this program NOT a stepping stone for the next guy.

Were not gonna find the next Joe Paterno or Bobby Bowden here. The guy after this hire could be though.

[DJ MC]

I'm confused how Tennessee's record since Kiffin has anything to do with how good of a job he did? He went 7-6 his first year at UT after they were bad enough to fire Fulmer. A lot of his recruits followed him to USC. You don't go 7-6 at UT and 10-2 at USC by being a bad coach. 

 

Then why did USC fire him halfway through the season?

 

The UT record matters because he did nothing to set them up long-term. As you said, he took his recruits with him, and obviously didn't get good enough ones who needed to stay. So why on earth would Maryland want that kind of guy here?

[DJ MC]

Of course.

 

Yes, if Lane did a great job, chances are a better program would offer him a job and he'd bolt. The same goes for most coaches, though, especially younger ones.

 

If one of your biggest concerns is that a coach will do such a good job that a bigger program will hire him, that's not that much of a concern IMO. He'd raise the profile of MD in the process and MD would be in a better position when it comes time to hire a new coach.

 

It's not about a coach leaving, its when they leave and what they leave behind. Kiffin's track record in that case is abysmal.

[PD24]

Dan Mullen - Mississippi State. Hired when he was 36, been there for 6 years, grew the program. Has had offers from bigger programs like Florida, has stayed in Starkville.

 

Bob Stoops - Oklahoma. Hired when he was 39, been there for 16 years, grew the program in a big way.

 

Mike Gundy - Oklahoma State. Hired as OC when he was 34, HC when he was 39. Been there since 2001.

 

Gary Patterson - TCU. Hired when he was 40, been there for 15 years.

 

Kirk Ferentz - Iowa. Hired when he was 44, been there for 16 years.

 

Pat Fitzgerald - Northwestern. Hired to the staff at 26, head coach at 31. Been there for 14 years.

 

Bronco Mendenhall - BYU. Hired to staff at 37, head coach at 39. Been there for 12 years.

 

Dan Mullen is a horrible example. He was on the hot seat for a couple years and was literally close to being fired, then he got them to #1 least year and I don't believe he was on Florida's list last year or he likely would have bolted.

 

Bronco Mendenhall grew up in Utah and he is a member of the Church of Ladderday Saints. He's not going anywhere. 

 

Mike Gundy is a decent example though. Gary Patterson...fair enough. 

 

But the rest of your examples have flaws. If you're talking about guys like Fitzgerald going 7-5, 8-4, 6-6, etc, then fine, maybe they'll stay. Pat Fitzgerald will be gone if he was good enough to be gone. He's been solid for them but he hasn't been good enough for a major program to want him. Neither has Kirk Ferentz, especially because of the style of play that his teams play.

 

I'm saying if one of these guys that we hire really changes the program and they win 9-10 games a year, then they will be gone. As they should be. I think this program can win 9 games a year. I don't want a coach good enough to stay around but not good enough to get noticed. That's basically what Pat Fitzgerald has done.

Also can't believe your comparing Oklahoma to MD. 

[PD24]

I hope MD just hires the best guy for the job. If he stays for two years and jumps to a premier program, but in those two years gets MD back to being a top 25 program (first goal) and challenging for a Big Ten title (second goal)...then thanks for the contribution. Thanks for making this program NOT a stepping stone for the next guy.

Were not gonna find the next Joe Paterno or Bobby Bowden here. The guy after this hire could be though.

 

Agreed! I was going to say in one of my previous posts, I think MD can turn into a destination job. Oregon wasn't necessarily a destination job until Chip took over for Bellotti, and now Oregon is a cool place to be. Maryland can be that same place only in a more fertile recruiting ground and much bigger media market. 

 

But the first guy to do that won't stay. 

[mweb08]

Of course.
 
Yes, if Lane did a great job, chances are a better program would offer him a job and he'd bolt. The same goes for most coaches, though, especially younger ones.
 
If one of your biggest concerns is that a coach will do such a good job that a bigger program will hire him, that's not that much of a concern IMO. He'd raise the profile of MD in the process and MD would be in a better position when it comes time to hire a new coach.

 
It's not about a coach leaving, its when they leave and what they leave behind. Kiffin's track record in that case is abysmal.

He wasn't really at Tennessee long enough to judge him, and he came into a bad situation with USC.

I will say that his dad was a disaster at USC.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I hope MD just hires the best guy for the job. If he stays for two years and jumps to a premier program, but in those two years gets MD back to being a top 25 program (first goal) and challenging for a Big Ten title (second goal)...then thanks for the contribution. Thanks for making this program NOT a stepping stone for the next guy.

Were not gonna find the next Joe Paterno or Bobby Bowden here. The guy after this hire could be though.

 

Right. People look at what Oregon is now and they mostly think of Chip Kelly. But really it was Mike Bellotti, and Rich Brooks before him, that laid the groundwork. Just because the first guy doesn't see the building process all the way through doesn't mean you can't finish the job.

[DJ MC]

Agreed! I was going to say in one of my previous posts, I think MD can turn into a destination job. Oregon wasn't necessarily a destination job until Chip took over for Bellotti, and now Oregon is a cool place to be. Maryland can be that same place only in a more fertile recruiting ground and much bigger media market. 

 

But the first guy to do that won't stay. 

 

Chip Kelly stayed there four years.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Agreed! I was going to say in one of my previous posts, I think MD can turn into a destination job. Oregon wasn't necessarily a destination job until Chip took over for Bellotti, and now Oregon is a cool place to be. Maryland can be that same place only in a more fertile recruiting ground and much bigger media market. 

 

But the first guy to do that won't stay. 

 

Beat me to it.

[DJ MC]

He wasn't really at Tennessee long enough to judge him...

 

Which is his fault.

 

and he came into a bad situation with USC.

 

Which he couldn't work with, when he could have had a significant amount of slack. He did go 10-2, then followed it with 7-6 and was fired at 3-2 (and again, his interim replacements went 7-2 and won a bowl game).