465 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

Is Jackie Robinson one of the 4 greatest ever because of what he went through?

If not, is he the greatest second baseman ever because of what he faced?

[RShack]

Is Jackie Robinson one of the 4 greatest ever because of what he went through?

If not, is he the greatest second baseman ever because of what he faced?

 

Stop asking silly questions... Jackie Robinson's ML career did not suffer because his manager jerked him around and didn't let him play like he would have played a white guy... and nobody said Koufax performed worse because he was upset about anti-semitism....

[mweb08]

Does your away ERA number include only the Dodger Stadium years or not... you never answered the question, you just referred me to the place where you also didn't clarify this....

 

The first post was clear.

 

His career ERA at Dodger Stadium was 1.37. Away from it: 3.39.

 

That's not clear to you?

[mweb08]

No, that's not what that question was about.

You agreed with Shack that if they are considered all time greats that they can't be overrated.

So, are you going to be consistent with that or are you just the troll we figure you are being(both here and the LBJ discussions)?

 

We all know Nickle has no issue calling all time greats overrated and calling out us for overrating/underrating all time greats. 

 

He's bashed me plenty of times for that so he's just being disingenuous here.

[SportsGuy]

Stop asking silly questions... Jackie Robinson's ML career did not suffer because his manager jerked him around and didn't let him play like he would have played a white guy... and nobody said Koufax performed worse because he was upset about anti-semitism....

You are the one who brought up everything that Koufax had to go through and how you think that should be factored into the discussion.

That's silly to me, at least in this context.

So, why is that we can use those excuses for Koufax but not Jackie?

[bnickle]

Stop asking silly questions... Jackie Robinson's ML career did not suffer because his manager jerked him around and didn't let him play like he would have played a white guy... and nobody said Koufax performed worse because he was upset about anti-semitism....

That's what Rob does best. Ask silly, irrelevant questions.

[SportsGuy]

We all know Nickle has no issue calling all time greats overrated and calling out us for overrating/underrating all time greats.

He's bashed me plenty of times for that so he's just being disingenuous here.

Of course he is. I am just asking him to man up and admit it.

Not that I expect him too. He will just ignore and run away from it like he usually does.

[bnickle]

We all know Nickle has no issue calling all time greats overrated and calling out us for overrating/underrating all time greats.

He's bashed me plenty of times for that so he's just being disingenuous here.

Not at all. Koufax isn't overrated. Legit claim to being the greatest living pitcher. Now, if someone wants to claim that say Bret Favre has a claim as the greatest QB of all time then yeah I'll call you out for overating him. It's all relative.

[mweb08]

Let's compare Pedro's best years and Koufax's best years in ERA to get away from ERA+.

 

Pedro: 1.74, 1.90, 2.07

 

Koufax: 1.73, 1.74, 1.88

 

Which is more impressive?

 

Pedro put up these numbers in the steroid era pitching half his games in Fenway while playing in the tough AL East, and facing DH's.

 

Koufax pitched in an extreme pitcher's era while pitching in a pitchers park which also benefited from an illegally raised mound. He did however throw a lot more innings, at least in two of these three years.

[mweb08]

Not at all. Koufax isn't overrated. Legit claim to being the greatest living pitcher. Now, if someone wants to claim that say Bret Favre has a claim as the greatest QB of all time then yeah I'll call you out for overating him. It's all relative.

 

So all-time greats can be overrated or they can't be?

 

And Favre's ranking among QB's probably isn't that different than Koufax's ranking among pitchers, but of course MLB has been around longer.

[SportsGuy]

Not at all. Koufax isn't overrated. Legit claim to being the greatest living pitcher. Now, if someone wants to claim that say Bret Favre has a claim as the greatest QB of all time then yeah I'll call you out for overating him

Based off of what?

[bnickle]

So all-time greats can be overrated or they can't be?

And Favre's ranking among QB's probably isn't that different than Koufax's ranking among pitchers, but of course MLB has been around longer.

It's relative. If you're claiming LBJ is the GOAT like in Robs example then yeah you are overrating him. You're not overrating him if you call him one of the all time greats. No one here has claimed Koufax is the greatest living pitcher. Only that he is in the conversation.

[bnickle]

This all started because you essentially threw a fit that he was out on the field Tuesday. You've since said you are fine with him being out there so you've backed off. This should all be over but it's turned into a Weber, Shields, Shack arguing to argue fest.

[SportsGuy]

It's relative. If you're claiming LBJ is the GOAT like in Robs example then yeah you are overrating him. You're not overrating him if you call him one of the all time greats. No one here has claimed Koufax is the greatest living pitcher. Only that he is in the conversation.

But how do you define "in the conversation"?

 

How many guys are in the conversation?

[mweb08]

This all started because you essentially threw a fit that he was out on the field Tuesday. You've since said you are fine with him being out there so you've backed off. This should all be over now.

 

I didn't throw a fit at all. The fit has been in response to me from Shack who obviously loves Koufax and from you who wanted a big argument over it and helped achieve that through trolling.

[mweb08]

It's relative. If you're claiming LBJ is the GOAT like in Robs example then yeah you are overrating him. You're not overrating him if you call him one of the all time greats. No one here has claimed Koufax is the greatest living pitcher. Only that he is in the conversation.

 

You've said many times that I've overrate James because I have him over Magic. 

[mweb08]

Joe Posnankski on the greatest living pitcher, who also happens to be the best pitcher ever in his view: http://joeposnanski....seball-history/

[SportsGuy]

Reynolds killed it like always.

Koufax is the best living pitcher.

[SportsGuy]

It's relative. If you're claiming LBJ is the GOAT like in Robs example then yeah you are overrating him. You're not overrating him if you call him one of the all time greats. No one here has claimed Koufax is the greatest living pitcher. Only that he is in the conversation.

See above

[SportsGuy]

Thanks guys. Absurd list. Koufax is every bit of a poor choice as Bench imo.

This was the first comment.

 

Don't see how Mike is throwing a fit.  He stated an opinion.