39 replies to this topic

[Oriole85]

I'm always surprised by what trades actually get made. Trades like JJ Hardy for Jim Hoey make anything possible.

That's simple it was salary dump for the Twins and we were willing to take him. The players we gave them were just throw-ins. Worked out pretty well for us, considering it was just supposed to be one year and the Twins were weary given his injury history.

[Oriole85]

Arrieta is getting battered around right now and is too inconsistent to have the reasonable expectation of staying in the rotation at this point.

So we just sent Tommy Hunter down, I'm not sure we have better options considering there is an empty spot til we need a 5th starter and that's assuming everyone else stays healthy. Does Steve Johnson take a spot in addition to Britton and send Jake down?

[LanceRinker]

So we just sent Tommy Hunter down, I'm not sure we have better options considering there is an empty spot til we need a 5th starter and that's assuming everyone else stays healthy. Does Steve Johnson take a spot in addition to Britton and send Jake down?

I think Jake could do well to find 'himself' in Triple-A for a little while. Not saying he'll like it but his lucky stache' hasn't been so lucky for him. Granted, it's not all on him as our defense isn't really doing anyone any favors right now but he still needs to figure out how to become more effective on a more consistent basis.

As far as Johnson and Britton are concerned.

Britton is getting Hunter's spot pronto once he's available. The real question is what Buck does with the rotation once we get to the all-star break and he can shuffle the order. If Arrieta does stay in the rotation than I'd prefer him to be used as the 4th or 5th starter going forward. Probably the 4th so we can limit Chen's exposure and work load.

Johnson needs to be given his chance in some form because he could opt out of his contract by June 1st if he's not on the 40-man roster. He's performed well enough in Triple-A this year that he's deserving of his shot.

We may not even need to trade for a starter if Britton comes back and is effective and Arrieta can find some consistency. But we do have depth in Pineiro and Johnson right now. Still need to figure out who's the best at this moment.

The option to make room for Johnson and keep Arrieta up is sending Miguel Gonzalez back down. He's really the only expendable one in the bullpen unless we ship Gregg off somewhere.

[JeremyStrain]

Move Jake to the pen and have him start interning to be the next closer after JJ gets too expensive.

[LanceRinker]

Move Jake to the pen and have him start interning to be the next closer after JJ gets too expensive.

This is actually a great idea and I was thinking about this last night after he was pulled from the game. He could dial it up and be very effective for a full inning - he could even be a two inning at a time guy here and there when appropriate.

[Tyler Bingaman]

Move Jake to the pen and have him start interning to be the next closer after JJ gets too expensive.

Love this, I was hoping that's what we could pull with Tillman!

[mweb08]

Yes, Arrieta would likely be great in the pen; however, there is not the SP depth as of now to move him imo.

Hammel, Chen, Matusz, Britton, ?

I advocated this move if they were able to get Oswalt, but since that didn't happen, I don't see the point of taking away from a weakness to help a strength. If Arrieta continues to struggle and the rotation is solidified I would support the move, but not until then.

[SportsGuy]

I don't see what good sending Jake to AAA would do unless you feel he needs to work with Peterson.

[JeremyStrain]

I don't see what good sending Jake to AAA would do unless you feel he needs to work with Peterson.

Even then, Peterson floats, he could meet him in Bmore.

If you think Jake in the pen is better than Eveland/Pinero in the pen AND Eveland/Pinero in the rotation is = Jake in the rotation you make the move.

I personally think Eveland could put up similar numbers to Jake in the rotation, but Jake at the back of the pen would give you an unhittable 8th and 9th inning, shortening the game to 7 innings.

IF Britton can come back at that low 3 ERA level he should be able to, and BMat keeps going strong in the mid 3's I'd say we could probably afford to make the move.

[mweb08]

Even then, Peterson floats, he could meet him in Bmore.

If you think Jake in the pen is better than Eveland/Pinero in the pen AND Eveland/Pinero in the rotation is = Jake in the rotation you make the move.

I personally think Eveland could put up similar numbers to Jake in the rotation, but Jake at the back of the pen would give you an unhittable 8th and 9th inning, shortening the game to 7 innings.

IF Britton can come back at that low 3 ERA level he should be able to, and BMat keeps going strong in the mid 3's I'd say we could probably afford to make the move.

I think it's far from certain that Arrieta would be the clear #2 guy in the pen. Strop, O'Day, and Lindstrom have all been excellent. Obviously Matt is out now, but that's still 2 guys pitching great to go along with JJ. Plus Ayala with his sub 2 ERA; although, I'm not as confident in him continuing that.

So I think the game has already been shortened.

The pen just doesn't need the help imo. If Britton comes back stong and Piniero or whomever shows they deserve a shot at the rotation while Jake continues to struggle, then maybe I make the move. I would like to be more patient with Arrieta, though, and the way the pen has been pitching allows for that patience to continue imo.

[LanceRinker]

I think it's far from certain that Arrieta would be the clear #2 guy in the pen. Strop, O'Day, and Lindstrom have all been excellent. Obviously Matt is out now, but that's still 2 guys pitching great to go along with JJ. Plus Ayala with his sub 2 ERA; although, I'm not as confident in him continuing that.

So I think the game has already been shortened.

The pen just doesn't need the help imo. If Britton comes back stong and Piniero or whomever shows they deserve a shot at the rotation while Jake continues to struggle, then maybe I make the move. I would like to be more patient with Arrieta, though, and the way the pen has been pitching allows for that patience to continue imo.

It wouldn't be a bad experiment if we traded Jim Johnson though. I wouldn't mind seeing Arrieta moved to the pen to handle the 8th or 9th inning. He has the mentality for it, IMO. Especially considering he's getting brutalized after he get's through the opposing team's lineup the first time over so far this season.

Besides, we have Steve Johnson and Joel Pineiro waiting for their turn to have a crack at the rotation. Might as well give them a try before the trade deadline to see what they can do. Britton is a lock in the rotation in place of Hunter so he's good once he comes back.

[JeremyStrain]

I said before he made his debut he could possibly be Papelbon good back there, if he's half as good as I think he will be back there (and he can throw 97+ in 1 inning spurts) and you add those other guys in, you could have a starter go 5-6 and then throw 0's for the rest of the game.

It doesn't need the help, you're right, just trying to make the most out of what we have. I wouldn't under any circumstances send him down, that doesn't help anything, and improving an already good BP is better than improving the AAA rotation. I'd still give him a while, but if you can get the same performance out of someone else in the rotation, and do even better in the pen, im inclined to do that instead of just leaving the status quo.

The real thing is it's not like he's under-performing, he's pretty much pitching exactly how we thought he would coming into the season.

[mweb08]

It wouldn't be a bad experiment if we traded Jim Johnson though. I wouldn't mind seeing Arrieta moved to the pen to handle the 8th or 9th inning. He has the mentality for it, IMO. Especially considering he's getting brutalized after he get's through the opposing team's lineup the first time over so far this season.

Besides, we have Steve Johnson and Joel Pineiro waiting for their turn to have a crack at the rotation. Might as well give them a try before the trade deadline to see what they can do. Britton is a lock in the rotation in place of Hunter so he's good once he comes back.

Yeah, I think if JJ is traded it would make much more sense to move Arrieta to the pen. I agree with you and allstar that he should be very strong out of the pen.

I'm not optimistic about Steve Johnson starting and Pineiro isn't someone I'd make an effort to make room for in the rotation unless he looks great.

[LanceRinker]

Yeah, I think if JJ is traded it would make much more sense to move Arrieta to the pen. I agree with you and allstar that he should be very strong out of the pen.

I'm not optimistic about Steve Johnson starting and Pineiro isn't someone I'd make an effort to make room for in the rotation unless he looks great.

Pineiro has started two games for Norfolk and has a 3.65 ERA overall. I'm thinking another start or two should let us know where he's at and whether it'd be worth it to make room for him. He's pretty good at getting ground ball outs and that would play well at OPACY.

[mweb08]

Allstar: I may disagree regrading Arrieta pitching exactly like we expected. If I expected him to be a 76 ERA+ I would have wanted him in the pen to begin with. However, if you're more referring to his FIP, well that's actually solid has it's 3.93 and his xFIP is 3.53. So perhaps he's been unlucky and if he is allowed to remain in the rotation the ERA will come down to reflect the peripherals.

[mweb08]

Yeah, I think if JJ is traded it would make much more sense to move Arrieta to the pen. I agree with you and allstar that he should be very strong out of the pen.

I'm not optimistic about Steve Johnson starting and Pineiro isn't someone I'd make an effort to make room for in the rotation unless he looks great.

Pineiro has started two games for Norfolk and has a 3.65 ERA overall. I'm thinking another start or two should let us know where he's at and whether it'd be worth it to make room for him. He's pretty good at getting ground ball outs and that would play well at OPACY.

Given the super small sample size, I'd be much more interested in hearing what scouts have to say about Pineiro than basing it off his ERA and other numbers.

[JeremyStrain]

It wouldn't be a bad experiment if we traded Jim Johnson though. I wouldn't mind seeing Arrieta moved to the pen to handle the 8th or 9th inning. He has the mentality for it, IMO. Especially considering he's getting brutalized after he get's through the opposing team's lineup the first time over so far this season.

Besides, we have Steve Johnson and Joel Pineiro waiting for their turn to have a crack at the rotation. Might as well give them a try before the trade deadline to see what they can do. Britton is a lock in the rotation in place of Hunter so he's good once he comes back.

Yeah, I think if JJ is traded it would make much more sense to move Arrieta to the pen. I agree with you and allstar that he should be very strong out of the pen.

I'm not optimistic about Steve Johnson starting and Pineiro isn't someone I'd make an effort to make room for in the rotation unless he looks great.

Yeah Johnson is no starter, he's like a 6th/7th inning guy in the pen. I wouldn't move Jake unless I was confident I could replace him with at least the same production...that's just not hard to do if he's a 4.25 ERA 1.4 WHIP pitcher.

Moving him and letting him learn the back end role could allow you to trade JJ for a small ransom sooner than later and not lose a beat.

Yeah I mean I guess I just expected something like a 4 ERA and a 1.25 WHIP out of him, if he's around there I'm fine, if he starts creeping up to 4.5 and 1.4 I think we could replace that easy.

[LanceRinker]

Given the super small sample size, I'd be much more interested in hearing what scouts have to say about Pineiro than basing it off his ERA and other numbers.

I agree, but that's all I really have to go on. I haven't seen him pitch in either of his starts for Norfolk.

It looks like he pitched alright in his first start on May 3rd. He gave up 3 hits and 1 run over 6 innings and struck out 5.

But he didn't have a very good start in his last outing on May 8th. 7 hits and 4 runs over 6.1 innings with 4 strikeouts. He hasn't walked anyone though in either outing so that's a good sign.

[mweb08]

Regarding all of this trade talk, I am content in waiting at least a month to see how the O's are doing and how individual players are performing.

If the O's are in contention, I'd have a hard time dealing JJ, but if they fall out of it, I'd look to trade him regardless of Arrieta's situation.

[LanceRinker]

Regarding all of this trade talk, I am content in waiting at least a month to see how the O's are doing and how individual players are performing.

If the O's are in contention, I'd have a hard time dealing JJ, but if they fall out of it, I'd look to trade him regardless of Arrieta's situation.

That's the best path to take, IMO, as well. It wouldn't make sense to go all in too early with rental players. I'd rather wait to see if what we have can at least sustain our success into the All-Star break before we start bandying prospects around like candy for other GM's.