148 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

That's my opinion for MVP.  That award has the word "value" in it's title, so it's up for everybody to define what that value means and how to assess it, possibly beyond just "best player".  I assign a higher value to production on a playoff contender over equal production on an also-ran.  Cy Young I usually treat more as best pitcher.  Maybe that's inconsistent, I don't know, just how I view the two awards.

 

I'm not really interested in getting into that debate.  I think Hernandez has been slightly better this year at helping his team prevent runs.  Maybe he's gotten more help from his defense than Kluber has gotten from his, I don't really see the need to separate that unless there is a major difference, which I don't think there really is here.  In fact, depending on if you prefer FIP or xFIP, the independent stats each favor one of them, so again it's down to personal preference.

 

I think it's incredibly close and I don't think there is a right or wrong choice between the two.

[mweb08]

If Cleveland is one of the worst defensive teams in baseball, then I think that is something that absolutely should be considered. 

 

Kluber BABIP: .316

Felix BABIP: .262

 

Of course that's not all a reflection of the defense, and maybe only a small part of the difference can be chalked up to that, but when one guy is pitching in front of a much better defense, that's probably going to affect the run prevention. 

[Mackus]

Hernandez is considered to have a much better defense behind him than Kluber. On FanGraphs, the Mariners are rated the 13th best defensive team, while the Indians are the 29th. 

 

I also recall you arguing that play down the stretch in a playoff race should be valued more. With that in mind, yesterday has to hurt Felix. 

 

Well the numbers that try to eliminate defense are conflicted on if Kluber or Hernandez were better, close both ways, and Kluber has the larger advantage on the one that likes him, but even when taking that defense into account, they are neck and neck for raw performance.

[SBTarheel]

I see the case for Kershaw, obviously, but it's tough for the MVP of the league to have not played in 135 games.

 

Granted, the 27 games he appeared in are the stuff of legend, but for some reason it doesn't sit right with me.

 

Trout/McCutchen

Kluber/Kershaw

[DJ MC]

I see the case for Kershaw, obviously, but it's tough for the MVP of the league to have not played in 135 games.

 

He'll face about as many batters (718, depending on whether he gets another start) as any batter gets PAs (Ian Kinsler will likely lead MLB, currently with 705).

[SBTarheel]

He'll face about as many batters (718, depending on whether he gets another start) as any batter gets PAs (Ian Kinsler will likely lead MLB, currently with 705).

Interesting.

 

He pitches today, so he will.

[mweb08]

I see the case for Kershaw, obviously, but it's tough for the MVP of the league to have not played in 135 games.

 
He'll face about as many batters (718, depending on whether he gets another start) as any batter gets PAs (Ian Kinsler will likely lead MLB, currently with 705).

True. But he won't make nearly as many defensive or baserunning contributions.

[DJ MC]

True. But he won't make nearly as many defensive or baserunning contributions.

 

That didn't stop people from voting for Cabrera

[mweb08]

True. But he won't make nearly as many defensive or baserunning contributions.

 
That didn't stop people from voting for Cabrera

Touche.

[BSLChrisStoner]

It's hard to measure, but I Kershaw's ability to consistently dominate likely impacts other games. Rest for the bullpen, ability to use the bullpen more aggressively in games Kershaw does not appear in... knowing that they can rely on a quality outing from Kershaw the next time out.

[bnickle]

The bias against pitchers as MVP is wrong. At least the writers still consider them. They get it wrong sometimes, but I'd rather them get it wrong while considering pitchers vs not considering them at all.

[mweb08]

I lean towards position players, but I certainly consider pitchers. I have Kershaw third regardless.

[Pedro Cerrano]

What Kershaw has done this season is absurd. He's allowed 38 earned runs all year. Only once did he allow more than 3 in a start (7 against Arizona in May). That one start accounted for almost 1/5 of the earned runs he allowed all year.

If you take that start out, his ERA would have been 1.47 this year over 188 innings; the best in all of MLB since 1909(!). That's just insane.

He's my NL MVP. I don't care about WAR or xFIP or anything else.

[mweb08]

What Kershaw has done this season is absurd. He's allowed 38 earned runs all year. Only once did he allow more than 3 in a start (7 against Arizona in May). That one start accounted for almost 1/5 of the earned runs he allowed all year.


If you take that start out, his ERA would have been 1.47 this year over 188 innings; the best in all of MLB since 1909(!). That's just insane.


He's my NL MVP. I don't care about WAR or xFIP or anything else.

WAR actually has him first in the NL.

[Pedro Cerrano]

WAR actually has him first in the NL.

Well....cool. Haha.

I obviously didn't look up WAR....because in this case it means zero to me. But kudos to you for putting the WAR leader third on your ballot...you've come a long way, baby.

[mweb08]

WAR actually has him first in the NL.

Well....cool. Haha.


I obviously didn't look up WAR....because in this case it means zero to me. But kudos to you for putting the WAR leader third on your ballot...you've come a long way, baby.

In this case or every case?

[Pedro Cerrano]

In this case or every case?

I mean I could see using WAR as a tie-breaker, but there are rarely any ties.

[mweb08]

And as always, if the WAR leaders are somewhat close, then I think it's reasonable to use other factors to switch up the order. If a guy is crushing the field, well he's probably the MVP unless there's some weirdness going on with the numbers.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Why Kershaw third? I mean, McCutchen and Stanton are fine players, but Kershaw is doing things nobody has seen since Billy Taft was in office.

[mweb08]

Why Kershaw third? I mean, McCutchen and Stanton are fine players, but Kershaw is doing things nobody has seen since Billy Taft was in office.

I already gave a brief explanation. And Lucroy is 2nd for me. Kershaw has been great and it's very close IMO between he and those two. Let's also keep in mind that this has been a crazy low scoring season when looking at numbers that don't adjust for that.