40 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

http://www.rotoworld...9/peter-bourjos

I don't know how this can be since everyone and their mother told me that this guy was so valuable, etc...

Anyway, this is a guy we should be after...First of all, we need an OFer right now. Who knows how long Chavez will be out and Reimold is always up in the air with his health.

Secondly, Bourjous gives us a long term CFer, whether we trade Jones or move him to LF.

Worse case, Bourjous plays LF and CF 5-6 games a week, Reimold DH's, etc....

Angels want relief help. If I am the Orioles, I am trying to sell high on Lindstrom right now. Does that work for the Angels? Who knows. But I am trying Lindstrom or maybe Strop and perhaps include a MiL prospect like Hoes or someone along those lines(say someone ranked in that 12-25 range).

Getting Bourjous allows us a lot of flexibility and improves the defense a lot.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'd be all over that, and would definitely be in favor of trading Lindstrom and a Hoes type prospect, as you stated. I would be hesitant to trade Strop though.

[SportsGuy]

I'd be all over that, and would definitely be in favor of trading Lindstrom and a Hoes type prospect, as you stated. I would be hesitant to trade Strop though.

Losing Strop would suck but he is a guy with a lot of command issues and losing him may end up being nothing..plus, getting Bourjous is worth it.

Hell, just go pick up Reckling and you basically get another Strop anyway.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Losing Strop would suck but he is a guy with a lot of command issues and losing him may end up being nothing..plus, getting Bourjous is worth it.

Hell, just go pick up Reckling and you basically get another Strop anyway.

I guess I view Strop as the replacement for when we (hopefully) trade JJ for a nice return in July. That said, you're right, he's got his issues and we can find guys with good stuff on the scrap heap and plug in. It's not smart to be married to any reliever with the injury/volatility issues that comes with them.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Losing Strop would suck but he is a guy with a lot of command issues and losing him may end up being nothing..plus, getting Bourjous is worth it.

Hell, just go pick up Reckling and you basically get another Strop anyway.

How do you view Bourjous as an offensive player going forward? He was productive, but not overwhelming in the PCL. Last year he had 32 bb's, with 124 k's. Kind of a surprising ratio for a guy that does not have huge power.

Do have to love all the doubles and triples, and that cumulative .765 OPS in his 502 ab's. I guess I'm asking if you think that is his ceiling (which would have plenty of value), or if you think the 25 year old is going to grow into a consistent .820+ type of guy?

There seems to be no debate about his defensive value, though maybe you would have to consider it would be decreased a bit at OPACY, for the same reasons Jones' and Markakis' metrics are lower at home.

You might be able to talk me into Strop, but I would be reluctant there. I would be willing to move Lindstrom (who has impressed me more than I expected him to) and Hoes.

[Tucker Blair]

I think of Bourjos as one of the top tier defensive players in ALL of baseball. That is how high I view his defense.
His hitting has flaws, but there is plenty of ability there. I think he needs a stable spot in a lineup, unlike what the Angels are doing right now. It's tough to play when you know that at any given moment the best prospect in baseball (arguably) is going to take over the reigns in CF.

I would trade any of the players above mentioned for him honestly.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think of Bourjos as one of the top tier defensive players in ALL of baseball. That is how high I view his defense.
His hitting has flaws, but there is plenty of ability there. I think he needs a stable spot in a lineup, unlike what the Angels are doing right now. It's tough to play when you know that at any given moment the best prospect in baseball (arguably) is going to take over the reigns in CF.

I would trade any of the players above mentioned for him honestly.

But, but..... your avatar!

I'd be sad to see it go.

[Tucker Blair]

I think of Bourjos as one of the top tier defensive players in ALL of baseball. That is how high I view his defense.
His hitting has flaws, but there is plenty of ability there. I think he needs a stable spot in a lineup, unlike what the Angels are doing right now. It's tough to play when you know that at any given moment the best prospect in baseball (arguably) is going to take over the reigns in CF.

I would trade any of the players above mentioned for him honestly.

But, but..... your avatar!

I'd be sad to see it go.

I didn't say I would not be depressed!

[SportsGuy]

How do you view Bourjous as an offensive player going forward? He was productive, but not overwhelming in the PCL. Last year he had 32 bb's, with 124 k's. Kind of a surprising ratio for a guy that does not have huge power.

Do have to love all the doubles and triples, and that cumulative .765 OPS in his 502 ab's. I guess I'm asking if you think that is his ceiling (which would have plenty of value), or if you think the 25 year old is going to grow into a consistent .820+ type of guy?

There seems to be no debate about his defensive value, though maybe you would have to consider it would be decreased a bit at OPACY, for the same reasons Jones' and Markakis' metrics are lower at home.

You might be able to talk me into Strop, but I would be reluctant there. I would be willing to move Lindstrom (who has impressed me more than I expected him to) and Hoes.

Its not that great Chris.

This is why I felt so many people overrated him this offseason.

I wanted us to trade Jones and get him as our CFer. Bourjous was a 4+ WAR player this past year. He isn't that good IMO. He K's a decent amount, doesn't walk and doesn't have a lot of power. I would expect him to be a 720ish OPS player.

However, his defense and speed should make him a 2.5-3 WAR guy and that is very valuable, especially playing GG caliber defense in CF. To be honest, I would rather have him as our CFer vs Jones. Not that I think he is better but that I feel BOTH Jones and Bourjous have realistic capabilities of being consistent 2-3.5 WAR players. Bourjous is cheaper and since Jones has a lot of trade value, I would rather have Bourjous - what it takes to get him + what we get for Jones+ salary differences vs just Jones and one(or both) of Strop and Lindstrom.

[SportsGuy]

I think of Bourjos as one of the top tier defensive players in ALL of baseball. That is how high I view his defense.
His hitting has flaws, but there is plenty of ability there. I think he needs a stable spot in a lineup, unlike what the Angels are doing right now. It's tough to play when you know that at any given moment the best prospect in baseball (arguably) is going to take over the reigns in CF.

I would trade any of the players above mentioned for him honestly.

Yea, to be honest...i wouldn't hesitate to trade Lindstrom and Strop.

I would think Lindstrom, Hoes(or someone like him) plus 1 million would get the deal done for Bourjous IF the Angels want to deal him and if they are looking for a late inning reliever in return.

Those are assumptions based off of what they need and what rotoworld said.

And btw, with the way Pomeranz is looking, he could easily slot in for one of these guys...and also, go pick up Reckling.

I guess we could always see if a guy like Callaspo could be had in trade as well...Upgrade us at third. Maybe we could expand the trade some.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Yea, to be honest...i wouldn't hesitate to trade Lindstrom and Strop.

I would think Lindstrom, Hoes(or someone like him) plus 1 million would get the deal done for Bourjous IF the Angels want to deal him and if they are looking for a late inning reliever in return.

Those are assumptions based off of what they need and what rotoworld said.

And btw, with the way Pomeranz is looking, he could easily slot in for one of these guys.

It's interesting because I think we'd be getting the better end of that deal, and I don't think it's smart to be trading cheap, productive position players, for risky, volatile relievers. What's interesting is that I respect DiPoto and I don't think he'd like to do something like this, but at the same time, he is in a comprimising position because the Angels went out and spent all that money and need to contend now.

[SportsGuy]

It's interesting because I think we'd be getting the better end of that deal, and I don't think it's smart to be trading cheap, productive position players, for risky, volatile relievers. What's interesting is that I respect DiPoto and I don't think he'd like to do something like this, but at the same time, he is in a comprimising position because the Angels went out and spent all that money and need to contend now.

Right, they need to win.

The thing is, this was coming all offseason.

You saw that they needed a 5th starter and a BP arm...I kept saying to make a trade with Guthrie and JJ. So many people were telling me that wasn't the case and that Bourjous was too valuable to the Angels(despite being able to slot Trout in).

And now, what are the Angels looking for? A 5th starter and late inning reliever. Shocking!

[Tucker Blair]

During the season, teams get desperate. I won't even attempt to comprehend what potential moves could be made, since it is so hard to judge a teams' perception on their situation.

All i know is that Bourjos would be an awesome addition IMO!

[SportsGuy]

BTW, with Britton HOPEFULLY returning in a month, you could also move Hunter to the pen(where he belongs) and that also takes care of the reliever that you lose.

In other words, the Orioles have flexibility here and this move just opens up many different doors.

It makes all the sense in the world and it doesn't even hurt the team now, as they are playing well.

But when the dropoff happens(assuming it does) and you look to trade Jones(assuming they do), Bourjous is a great fall back option for this team to put in CF and we probably won't see any loss in WAR compared to Jones.

[Oriole85]

I'd be all over that, and would definitely be in favor of trading Lindstrom and a Hoes type prospect, as you stated. I would be hesitant to trade Strop though.

I'd trade a starter for a reliever especially non-closer any day of the week. Ask the Twins about the Ramos for Matt Capps trade now.

To further expand on that, relievers are a luxury item. I'm much more concerned about getting a productive everyday CF(or LF) than Pedro Strop, who could end up being the latest votaile reliever.

[Slappy]

Bourjos for a "pick one" of Strop, Lindstrom, Pomeranz would be a very nice deal. I'd hope they'd want Lindstrom as that saves us some salary. If I were DD I'd at least be in on it. I've heard the Nats are working on a similar deal and they've got some similar bullpen arms that have been rumored in the deal.

Jones in LF, Bourjos in CF, and Markakis in RF is a better outfield than what we had opening day, and FAR better than putting Betemit or Flaherty out there.

[Oriole85]

Bourjos for a "pick one" of Strop, Lindstrom, Pomeranz would be a very nice deal. I'd hope they'd want Lindstrom as that saves us some salary. If I were DD I'd at least be in on it. I've heard the Nats are working on a similar deal and they've got some similar bullpen arms that have been rumored in the deal.

Jones in LF, Bourjos in CF, and Markakis in RF is a better outfield than what we had opening day, and FAR better than putting Betemit or Flaherty out there.

Not sure how Jones would feel about playing LF as in would he want to stay here?

[You Play to Win the Game]

Not sure how Jones would feel about playing LF as in would he want to stay here?

That shouldn't factor into things at all. First of all, despite what he says, there's know way of really knowing if he really wants to stay here anyway (FA is quickly approaching), and secondly, we'd be in better shape LT if we traded him anyway, especially with his inflated home run numbers (hopefully that keeps up into July).

[Oriole85]

Not sure how Jones would feel about playing LF as in would he want to stay here?

That shouldn't factor into things at all. First of all, despite what he says, there's know way of really knowing if he really wants to stay here anyway (FA is quickly approaching), and secondly, we'd be in better shape LT if we traded him anyway, especially with his inflated home run numbers (hopefully that keeps up into July).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying let Jones dictate his contract, but you would have to factor that into any potential transaction if he got moved to a different position considering he might be more likely to leave if he can't play CF. I'm mixed on the trade or not trade Jones, and I won't debate that here except to say the following. But yes, you can get a sense of whether Jones wants to re-sign here. If you are too far apart numbers wise, there might be no other options.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying let Jones dictate his contract, but you would have to factor that into any potential transaction if he got moved to a different position considering he might be more likely to leave if he can't play CF. I'm mixed on the trade or not trade Jones, and I won't debate that here except to say the following. But yes, you can get a sense of whether Jones wants to re-sign here. If you are too far apart numbers wise, there might be no other options.

So hypothetically, say that we trade for Bourjos and put him in CF, and that makes Jones more likely to leave, would that make you not pull the trigger on the Bourjos trade?