1602 replies to this topic

[Oriole85]

ESPN:Washington Nationals discuss innings limit Stephen Strasburg

http://espn.go.com/m...ephen-strasburg

Looks like that time has come.

[BSLChrisStoner]

FanGraphs: LaRoche's Suddenly Elite Power
http://www.fangraphs...ly-elite-power/

[BobPhelan]

I will be actively rooting against the Nationals now that they've shut Strasburg down. What a slap in the face to their fans and Strasburg himself.

[Oriole85]

I will be actively rooting against the Nationals now that they've shut Strasburg down. What a slap in the face to their fans and Strasburg himself.

I don't get that? They are doing what they believe is best for the team's long-term success and his health. I'm personally against these "hard" limits and would take more of an "eye test"(which they might have done in this case, given they shut him down after a poor outing). It makes it tougher but we all knew this was coming even if someone on here claimed nothing was set in stone.

This team is more than him. I think there's a big stigma that this team can't compete without him. ESPN showed a graphic that he had the 5th best ERA of the starters in the 2nd half. The questions will remain unless they win the WS and in that case, it will be like "who needs him"(well not quite).

[BobPhelan]

They said they shut him down for mental reasons not physical reasons. The guy wants to pitch and have a chance at a championship. Shutting him down diminishes their chances. Theres no guarantee they'll have another chance as good as this any time soon. He could still get hurt next year. If they were in the wild card hunt I wouldn't have a problem with it. They have the best record in baseball, they should be going all in for their fans.

[Oriole85]

They said they shut him down for mental reasons not physical reasons. The guy wants to pitch and have a chance at a championship. Shutting him down diminishes their chances. Theres no guarantee they'll have another chance as good as this any time soon. He could still get hurt next year. If they were in the wild card hunt I wouldn't have a problem with it. They have the best record in baseball, they should be going all in for their fans.

And if he got injured in the next few weeks or playoffs would you still feel that way? Or if he was never the same pitcher? While I think there's a certain amount of truth with the whole "you never know when you'll be there again"(who would've guessed in 1997, that the O's would wait 15 years for their first winning season?) Shouldn't they also gives their fans the best shot at long-term success?

[BobPhelan]

I think in their position its definitely worth the risk.

[JeremyStrain]

They said they shut him down for mental reasons not physical reasons. The guy wants to pitch and have a chance at a championship. Shutting him down diminishes their chances. Theres no guarantee they'll have another chance as good as this any time soon. He could still get hurt next year. If they were in the wild card hunt I wouldn't have a problem with it. They have the best record in baseball, they should be going all in for their fans.

They shut him down EARLY for mental reasons, the talk about it was bothering him a lot. It's making him more of an outcast on his own team, something he is very sensitive about.

Also, they were waiting for him to show signs of physically struggling, which he has been, both in recent side sessions and in his last start. His stuff was suffering, which is why he got shelled for 5ER in 3 IP the other day.

It's not worth risking the rest of this kid's career for the next month and a half, and for the record, they can still win the WS without him, it'll just be a little tougher. Gio, JZim an EJax give them a great shot in the first 3 games. LAD are the only team I'd really say could give them trouble, and they still have to get in the playoffs first.

[BobPhelan]

Also, they were waiting for him to show signs of physically struggling, which he has been, both in recent side sessions and in his last start. His stuff was suffering, which is why he got shelled for 5ER in 3 IP the other day.

Well if thats the case then I can certainly see why they did it.

[JeremyStrain]

Well if thats the case then I can certainly see why they did it.

Yeah I mean, I didn't want them to do it either, I wanted to see them sweep through the WS, which I've been saying since Jan. they could do, but my stance on SS was if he started to fall off at all, shut him down immediately. That much velocity on a curve is always going to be risky on that elbow, and still recovering from the first TJ surgery, it's better to err on the side of caution.

In complete honestly, Rizzo didn't think they would legit compete for WS until next season, so he didn't think it was going to be an issue. I still think at the AS break they should have reevaluated and gone to a 6 man rotation in August, which would have extended him through the playoffs. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

[RShack]

IMO, they have botched this whole thing by saying way too much too soon. They talked early about him having an IP ceiling, thus creating a shutdown-watch that was guaranteed to be a major topic of media coverage all along. What they should have said all along is nothing but vague mumble-mumble about keeping an eye on it, etc. Instead, they made it a huge topic throughout, and they did it by not sticking to empty cliches. I have no idea how much is mental vs. other things, but I think the whole thing is a big snafu that had way too much momentum behind it because the team handled it wrong all along.

[JeremyStrain]

IMO, they have botched this whole thing by saying way too much too soon. They talked early about him having an IP ceiling, thus creating a shutdown-watch that was guaranteed to be a major topic of media coverage all along. What they should have said all along is nothing but vague mumble-mumble about keeping an eye on it, etc. Instead, they made it a huge topic throughout, and they did it by not sticking to empty cliches. I have no idea how much is mental vs. other things, but I think the whole thing is a big snafu that had way too much momentum behind it because the team handled it wrong all along.

Yeah no doubt they botched things a few different ways. What doesn't really get reported is that Steve is a pretty down to earth kid, and really wants to fit in with his teammates. Between the hype, the contract, the media circus and the shutdown, he feels like an outcast and it really bothers him. He tries really hard to just be one of the guys, and this has hit him pretty hard to not be able to go out there and help them win this thing. It has however continued a good relationship between the team and Scott Boras.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Camden Depot: Strasburg and the Verducci Effect
http://camdendepot.b...cci-effect.html

[Oriole85]

ESPN: Davey Johnson: Nationals' pleasure

http://espn.go.com/m...ngton-nationals

When the Nationals pulled that old glove down from the attic last year, people scratched their heads, wondering if the club had picked someone the game had passed by. As it turns out, they needn't have worried. Davey Johnson is right where he's always belonged, sitting on the bench of a dugout, managing a first-place club, bridging a generation gap and having the time of his Gumpian life.

He's good at managing, all right. He's won with power teams, racehorse teams, old teams, young teams. He's won with lunatics in the clubhouse (Mets) and the owner's box (Marge Schott with the Reds, Peter Angelos with the Orioles).

[BSLChrisStoner]

Love Davey Johnson, and as that article pointed out; he's won everywhere he has been.

Still having a hard time getting past him and and Rizzo not coming up with a better plan for Strasburg.

[Oriole85]

Love Davey Johnson, and as that article pointed out; he's won everywhere he has been.

Still having a hard time getting past him and and Rizzo not coming up with a better plan for Strasburg.

I've already said this, but I think knowing the results now, it's a lot easier to say that. They weren't supposed to be this good, they were supposed to be a dark horse to possibly contend for the division but more likely the WC. If they were say 15-30 in mid-May, it would've looked foolish holding him out like some have suggested. I've also heard shutting him down and starting him again would do more harm than good. Honestly, I'm not sure, I think whatever they did would've been criticized. More importantly, if he had gotten injured again, it would've been seen as the worst abuse since Billy Martin with the A's young arms, as pitching coach Steve McCatty knows better than anyone.

They did the same thing with Jordan Zimmermann and it seemed to work well. Obviously, he is not the once-in-a-generation talent nor were they as competitive last year.

I think the innings limit/plan for him was more of a Rizzo thing, by all of his comments. I've already said I'm against hard innings limits per se, but the organization did what was best for his long-term health. While it's impossible to say for sure that they'll be as well positioned as this year, I think odds are they will be. Believe me, I get the whole "you never know when you'll be back." And Davey Johnson knows this better than anyone given the Mets lone WS title in '86, when Doc Gooden&Strawberry, among others could've been predicted to be a mini-dynasty.

Nats fans are so sick of talking about it and I don't really blame them. But to expect the conversation to cease is not realistic.

[Oriole85]

One thing that bothers me in this article and other places as well, is he wasn't fired, he resigned. He might have been forced out but there's a clear distinction between the two. Mainly that as a result of resigning, he didn't collect his following years salary.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I've already said this, but I think knowing the results now, it's a lot easier to say that. They weren't supposed to be this good, they were supposed to be a dark horse to possibly contend for the division but more likely the WC.

Yeah, I picked them to be a WC team. To me this was an issue by May. There was plenty of time to adjust during the season. Even if the Nats win the WS, it is a failure on the organizations part to not have their healthy ace available to them for the post-season.

[Oriole85]

Yeah, I picked them to be a WC team. To me this was an issue by May. There was plenty of time to adjust during the season. Even if the Nats win the WS, it is a failure on the organizations part to not have their healthy ace available to them for the post-season.

I'm just not sure what you are suggesting. Should they have shut him down for a few weeks? Limit all of his starts to six innings?, which it seemed like they were doing towards the end. Either of those might've worked, but if the team went downhill for whatever reason and didn't recover, it looks bad.

If the Nats win the WS, will anyone be complaining? If anything, it looks better IMO, they won despite not having their "top pitcher" (which is debateable) since many Nats fans think he wasn't this year.

[JeremyStrain]

Yeah, I picked them to be a WC team. To me this was an issue by May. There was plenty of time to adjust during the season. Even if the Nats win the WS, it is a failure on the organizations part to not have their healthy ace available to them for the post-season.

Yeah I'm with you. I blogged about them making the playoffs as soon as they traded for Gio. I agree a better plan should have been on the list as a plan B back then. How do you only make one plan for all season?