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EDIT: Palmeiro


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#1 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:12 AM

NBC Sports / HBT: Palmeiro is probably going to fall off HOF Ballot
http://hardballtalk....llot-this-year/

 

 

The PED discussion doesn't need to be rehashed for the millionth time. Whether you care about PEDs or not, everyone understands that is the primary reason Palmeiro will not be in the HOF.

 

Taking the PED's out of the equation, how did you evaluate Palmeiro as a player?

 

I don't understand the argument of, "He was an accumulator, and never great."

 

Being very good for the length of time necessary to accumulate those counting stats is plenty impressive to me.

 

His run between '93 and '03 was ridiculous for any era. Even the steroid era, with smaller parks, and possibly juiced balls.

 

Due to how good Thomas, Bagwell, and McGwire were; Palmeiro was somewhat understandably overlooked in his career. However, regardless of how good that trio was; I don't think it should be lost what a consistence force Palmeiro was.



#2 SportsGuy

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:18 AM

3000 hits, 500 homers, GG winner, 71 WAR, 132 OPS+.

 

He is a HOFer.


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#3 BSLBobPhelan

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

3000 hits, 500 homers, GG winner, 71 WAR, 132 OPS+. He is a HOFer.

Agreed.

#4 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 11:47 AM

Definitely a sure fire HOF'er.  GG should never be a reason to cite someone's worthiness though... but especially in this case.


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#5 SportsGuy

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:04 PM

Definitely a sure fire HOF'er.  GG should never be a reason to cite someone's worthiness though... but especially in this case.

Well remember, he won it 3 times...Not just the one BS year.

 

and I agree that the GG is no biggie...But it is something people will cite.



#6 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:06 PM

Well remember, he won it 3 times...Not just the one BS year.

 

and I agree that the GG is no biggie...But it is something people will cite.

 

Yeah, of course they will - I just hate it. It's nonsense, IMO.


“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

Mike Elias


#7 mweb08

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:23 PM

He's definitely had a HOF career IMO. Sure, his peak wasn't fantastic, but it was still HOF caliber and his longevity/consistency was stellar.

#8 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:25 PM

He's definitely had a HOF career IMO. Sure, his peak wasn't fantastic, but it was still HOF caliber and his longevity/consistency was stellar.

 

Agree with both you and Stoner about the longevity. The whole "it's the hall of FAME" and "he never dominated his sport" argument against players like Raffy are just beyond silly. It shows a lack of perspective with respect to how hard it is to post a consistent, very good career like Palmeiro was able to do.

 

Also, a GIF of Raffy's swing, right when you walk through the front doors in Cooperstown, would make it a better attraction. What a thing of beauty.


“We have a shot at a wild card right now. But it is not a probability that we're going to win a wild card.” -2022 Trade Deadline

"It's liftoff from here" - after selling on 2022

"We're on a slight upward arc" - Winter Meetings 2022

"I think it's really hard to sit there and chart a course and say, 'We're likely to win the division.'" - Winter Meetings 2022

Mike Elias


#9 Sangar

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:47 PM

He may have never "dominated," but Palmeiro was one of the elite players of his generation. Without the obvious taint, he gets in easily.



#10 Sangar

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 01:05 PM

This is off topic; rather than making a snarky remark about Mike Timlin, I will pose a legitimate question.

 

What criteria is used in selecting players to be nominated? I'm always amazed at some of the names I see on the list.



#11 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:57 PM

Definitely a sure fire HOF'er.  GG should never be a reason to cite someone's worthiness though... but especially in this case.


I dunno. I thought Palmeiro was a pretty good defensive player.

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

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#12 Mackus

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 03:01 PM

I dunno. I thought Palmeiro was a pretty good defensive player.

 

He was, but Ricker is referring to the year that Palmeiro won the gold glove while playing only like 28 games in the field at first base.



#13 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 03:13 PM

He was, but Ricker is referring to the year that Palmeiro won the gold glove while playing only like 28 games in the field at first base.


Ahhh. Gotcha.

There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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#14 Mike B

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 03:17 PM

3000 hits, 500 homers, GG winner, 71 WAR, 132 OPS+.

 

He is a HOFer.

Without question.  He did something  only a few others did.

If he does not get in, and others stain by PED standards do, it is not right.

 

He may have been an accumulator but the numbers he accumulated are pretty damn impressive.


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#15 SportsGuy

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 03:53 PM

I dunno. I thought Palmeiro was a pretty good defensive player.


Yea...that's why I mentioned the GG awards...just a quick way of saying he wasn't one dimensional.

Btw, totally agree about the consistency issue....Eddie Murray was a no doubt about it HOFer and his biggest attribute was his consistency. That should never be looked down on.

#16 aurelius

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 03:01 AM

I thought his numbers. while great, were overrated. Palmiero wasn't half the player that Frank Robinson was. But his career offense numbers were similar if not better. Lot of things going into that.



#17 mweb08

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 08:59 AM

I thought his numbers. while great, were overrated. Palmiero wasn't half the player that Frank Robinson was. But his career offense numbers were similar if not better. Lot of things going into that.


Well Frank is a top 25 or so player ever so that's a high standard to live up to.

#18 JeffLong

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 10:08 AM

FWIW - Palmeiro's numbers say he deserves to be in. 125 Hall Rating where 100 is "HoF Caliber"

http://www.hallofsta...layer/palmera01


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#19 Mackus

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 10:31 AM

There is no rationale argument for keeping him out from a numbers perspective.

#20 MattJergensen

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:26 AM

He's got an impressive resume. He should be in.






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