54 replies to this topic

[1970]

Pierce 8 carries, 31 yards.
Rice 18 carries, 30 yards.
 
Pierce 3 catches, 12 yards.
Rice 6 catches, 26 yards.
 
If the Ravens have 26 rushing attempts Sunday vs. Chicago... should the carries be balanced, Rice with the edge, or Pierce with the edge?

I'd like to see Scott be active and get some touches next week.

[bnickle]

Yeah, I agree with you about Rice. The O-line, specifically Gino, is horrid, but it was clear watching Rice today that something isn't right. Whether he's lost a step, is still banged up, or both I don't know, but he's obviously not right.

 

Looking ahead, Ravens really need to steal one in Chicago. If they can do that, they are set up very well for the last 6 games. 

DiLutis,  I love you, but you got to show up and post after the  losses too. I saw you were on last week reading but you never made a post.

[PD24]

DiLutis,  I love you, but you got to show up and post after the  losses too. I saw you were on last week reading but you never made a post.

I try to avoid talk radio and message boards after losses because I feel like people are irrational. Not everyone, but some. I'm a fan myself so obviously I'm going to be more upbeat after a win and in a better mood to post, but I do really try to stay objective win or lose. They needed the win today, but honestly, I see nothing that leads me to believe this team as currently constructed can make a run, other than the D playing better today. Of course, same was said for a SB run last year before they came out vs NYG, so we'll see...

[bnickle]

I try to avoid talk radio and message boards after losses because I feel like people are irrational. Not everyone, but some. I'm a fan myself so obviously I'm going to be more upbeat after a win and in a better mood to post, but I do really try to stay objective win or lose. They needed the win today, but honestly, I see nothing that leads me to believe this team as currently constructed can make a run, other than the D playing better today. Of course, same was said for a SB run last year before they came out vs NYG, so we'll see...

This place is pretty rational after losses. Maybe not game threads but postgame.  I don't listen to radio or national coverage after losses either so I get that.

 

 

As bad as things got near the end of the year last year for us I think it's clear we were still much better then than we are right now. Nobody saw the SB run happening but we were still talented enough to do it. The offense is just too atrocious this year. There is just no magic cure for the O woes. I mean we've tried to put the ball in Joe's hnds but that isn't working either. Granted, he's got little around him but he's also too inconsistent.

 

 

Get the Oline figured out in the offseason, get another playmaker, and we should be right back in contention next year. '13 is lost.

[PD24]

This place is pretty rational after losses. Maybe not game threads but postgame. I don't listen to radio or national coverage after losses either so I get that.

 

 

 

As bad as things got near the end of the year last year for us I think it's clear we were still much better then than we are right now. Nobody saw the SB run happening but we were still talented enough to do it. The offense is just too atrocious this year. There is just no magic cure for the O woes. I mean we've tried to put the ball in Joe's hnds but that isn't working either. Granted, he's got little around him but he's also too inconsistent.

 

 

Get the Oline figured out in the offseason, get another playmaker, and we should be right back in contention next year. '13 is lost.

 

You hit the nail on the head in your 2nd paragraph...a point which has been missed too often around town these past 2 months. TALENT!

 

Tandon Doss was cut 2 months ago. Dallas Clark was unemployed 3 months ago. Marlon Brown was undrafted 6 months ago. Vonte Leach was not on a roster 4 months ago. Gino Gradkowski was a backup last year and played for Delaware 2 years ago. Shipley is not a starting caliber guard. 

 

People want to get on Joe, Rice, blah blah blah. And yeah, to an extent, when you earn a $120 million contract and you call yourself the man and the team backs that up with a paycheck, you need to put the team on your back and carry it and to a degree, Joe has done that at times this year but you can't win without any playmakers in this league.

 

But going on your elite comment...and I'm not saying Joe is or isn't elite...What I will say is that I have thought at various points that Eli, Ben, and Brees were elite. But Brees couldn't win games without Payton last year and Ben and Eli are both 3-6 right now. So, are they not elite and can they not carry a team, or is the team just so bad around them? 

 

And are the Ravens better on offense around Joe than those teams are around those 2 QB's? I'm not so sure. 

 

And if they aren't elite, are Brady, Manning, and Rodgers the only elite QB's right now?

[PD24]

If I would have told you guys last year at this time that in 2013, Tandon Doss, Marlon Brown, Dallas Clark, AQ Shipley, Gino Gradkowski, and Josh Bynes would all be starting for this team, we would have said wow, I hope the Ravens don't go 3-13. The fact is that this team easily could be 5-4 or 6-3 right now and if that was the case, then we'd be talking about John Harbaugh for COY. I get many teams can say that and many teams win/lose close games all the time but fact is that this just isn't a very talented team and the fact that we are still in this thing and have a fairly favorable schedule coming up to make a run speaks to the strong foundation of this organization and Joe IMO.

[Mackus]

I wouldn't have the the Ravens would be lucky to go 3-13 in that case.  Also, not all of those guys are starting.  Doss, Brown, Clark, and Bynes aren't starters currently, though they've gotten a start here or there for injuries.  Everyone assumed Gradkowski would be starting this year since the day he was drafted, just figured he'd be better than the swinging gate he's been.

[bnickle]

You hit the nail on the head in your 2nd paragraph...a point which has been missed too often around town these past 2 months. TALENT!

 

Tandon Doss was cut 2 months ago. Dallas Clark was unemployed 3 months ago. Marlon Brown was undrafted 6 months ago. Vonte Leach was not on a roster 4 months ago. Gino Gradkowski was a backup last year and played for Delaware 2 years ago. Shipley is not a starting caliber guard. 

 

People want to get on Joe, Rice, blah blah blah. And yeah, to an extent, when you earn a $120 million contract and you call yourself the man and the team backs that up with a paycheck, you need to put the team on your back and carry it and to a degree, Joe has done that at times this year but you can't win without any playmakers in this league.

 

But going on your elite comment...and I'm not saying Joe is or isn't elite...What I will say is that I have thought at various points that Eli, Ben, and Brees were elite. But Brees couldn't win games without Payton last year and Ben and Eli are both 3-6 right now. So, are they not elite and can they not carry a team, or is the team just so bad around them? 

 

And are the Ravens better on offense around Joe than those teams are around those 2 QB's? I'm not so sure. 

 

And if they aren't elite, are Brady, Manning, and Rodgers the only elite QB's right now?

I said this earlier this week. Manning, Brady, and Rodgers are arguably going to be 3 of the top 6 Qbs of all time. Not just HOF but the cream of the HOF crop. They've made it hard on everybody else and set the bar for expectations of a QB unreasonably high. You just aren't supposed to make the playoffs every year. Great Qbs, HOF Qbs miss the playoffs. Look at Elway, Marino, Favre. They all missed the playoffs multiple times. Look at Ben who is likely to be a HOF QB. He is about to miss the playoffs for the 4th time in 10 years. Eli for the 4th time in 9 years.

 

Look at golden boy Matt Ryan who by some is an elite QB and in another class than Joe. He's about to miss the playoffs for the 2nd time in 6 years. He has little talent around him and he also turns into a QB who's team in going to win 4-6 games.

[mweb08]

This place is pretty rational after losses. Maybe not game threads but postgame. I don't listen to radio or national coverage after losses either so I get that.
 
 
 
As bad as things got near the end of the year last year for us I think it's clear we were still much better then than we are right now. Nobody saw the SB run happening but we were still talented enough to do it. The offense is just too atrocious this year. There is just no magic cure for the O woes. I mean we've tried to put the ball in Joe's hnds but that isn't working either. Granted, he's got little around him but he's also too inconsistent.
 
 
Get the Oline figured out in the offseason, get another playmaker, and we should be right back in contention next year. '13 is lost.

 
You hit the nail on the head in your 2nd paragraph...a point which has been missed too often around town these past 2 months. TALENT!
 
Tandon Doss was cut 2 months ago. Dallas Clark was unemployed 3 months ago. Marlon Brown was undrafted 6 months ago. Vonte Leach was not on a roster 4 months ago. Gino Gradkowski was a backup last year and played for Delaware 2 years ago. Shipley is not a starting caliber guard. 
 
People want to get on Joe, Rice, blah blah blah. And yeah, to an extent, when you earn a $120 million contract and you call yourself the man and the team backs that up with a paycheck, you need to put the team on your back and carry it and to a degree, Joe has done that at times this year but you can't win without any playmakers in this league.
 
But going on your elite comment...and I'm not saying Joe is or isn't elite...What I will say is that I have thought at various points that Eli, Ben, and Brees were elite. But Brees couldn't win games without Payton last year and Ben and Eli are both 3-6 right now. So, are they not elite and can they not carry a team, or is the team just so bad around them? 
 
And are the Ravens better on offense around Joe than those teams are around those 2 QB's? I'm not so sure. 
 
And if they aren't elite, are Brady, Manning, and Rodgers the only elite QB's right now?

If you're going to talk about QB record rather than just how the offense performs, you need to consider defense and special teams, not just the offensive talent around the QB.

[Mackus]

Man, the morning radio was brutal this morning on my drive in.

 

Lots of Flacco bashing.  They were acting like his $20M salary is the reason we don't have any talent at WR and TE and O-line and the reason Ray Rice is struggling.

 

Look, Joe got a huge salary.  But he was always going to get a huge salary.  How much more did he get because of the SB win?  20%?  He certainly was going to get at least $16M or so a year even before last season.  So really he only got an extra $4M or so a year.  It'd certainly be nice to have that money to spend elsewhere (though of course it wouldn't make any difference at all this season since the cap number would be pretty low either way), but that's not a complete game-changing amount of cap space.  That's one solid, but not star, player.

 

So unless you're arguing they should've let Joe walk and draft a QB at the end of the 1st round or later, in a very weak draft, stop it with the "Joe's salary is making the team around him suffer".

 

/rant

[SportsGuy]

Man, the morning radio was brutal this morning on my drive in.

 

Lots of Flacco bashing.  They were acting like his $20M salary is the reason we don't have any talent at WR and TE and O-line and the reason Ray Rice is struggling.

 

Look, Joe got a huge salary.  But he was always going to get a huge salary.  How much more did he get because of the SB win?  20%?  He certainly was going to get at least $16M or so a year even before last season.  So really he only got an extra $4M or so a year.  It'd certainly be nice to have that money to spend elsewhere (though of course it wouldn't make any difference at all this season since the cap number would be pretty low either way), but that's not a complete game-changing amount of cap space.  That's one solid, but not star, player.

 

So unless you're arguing they should've let Joe walk and draft a QB at the end of the 1st round or later, in a very weak draft, stop it with the "Joe's salary is making the team around him suffer".

 

/rant

Plus, by signing the deal he did, his cap number dropped a lot and made it even more likely that they could bring guys in during the offseason.

 

Oh...and people are morons.

[BSLMattJergensen]

I don't listen to any talk radio at all anymore. After wins or losses it doesn't matter.

 

I was in attendance for this one and was sitting in section 123 which gave me a perfect view of the tipped pass for the TD. Fluke play. It happens. It always easier in hindsight to bash Ihedigbo but the play developed quickly and reactions take over.

 

It was great to see this team get on the board early. They haven't played with a lead in so long I'm sure it feel good for the players. The wind was pretty brutal so to see the punting/kicking game do so well was a plus. The defense played a complete game. The secondary, especially Webb/Ihedigbo were very active in this one.

 

The offense is just bad. We've seen it enough and it isn't getting better. Some of Flacco's decisions were questionable but he also made some plays too. He's like most QB's, keep him upright and give him protection and he can pick teams apart. That simply hasn't happened this season and it isn't going to improve.

 

I will say this. Let's not forget that they WON. Enjoy it. Have fun. We have plenty to time to worry about the next opponent and to decide if the playoffs are just a pipe dream. This team doesn't look like one because they just don't pass the eye test but someone has to win the North - don't they?

[You Play to Win the Game]

I wasn't crazy about Smith giving it to Ihedigbo on the sidelines after the play. Didn't look good.

[SportsGuy]

I wasn't crazy about Smith giving it to Ihedigbo on the sidelines after the play. Didn't look good.

I didn't see it...part of me likes it though.  First of all, he was frustrated(as was everyone) and was letting off some steam...that happens every game.

 

But, what I like about it is that Smith feels he can say that now...he couldn't have done that before but he is playing better football...he is healthy and has a more prominent role on the team. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

I didn't see it...part of me likes it though.  First of all, he was frustrated(as was everyone) and was letting off some steam...that happens every game.

 

But, what I like about it is that Smith feels he can say that now...he couldn't have done that before but he is playing better football...he is healthy and has a more prominent role on the team. 

 

He's playing better, definitely earning his stripes now days, it's good to see. That part I agree with.

 

I have no interest in having a Dez Bryant type personality on this team though. I feel teammates should be more uplifting and inspiring than that. That is negative energy, regardless of how you slice it. You want to grill someone? Pick your battles. Don't do it on a tipped hail mary/fluke. There's also the fact that Ihedigbo has had a good year, and obviously had a pretty damn good game yesterday, too. He shouldn't be subject to getting grilled everytime he makes a flukish mistake.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I can't give Ihedigbo a pass on the play. I get the idea that reactions take over, but before the play happens you know the DB's are all saying the same thing... knock it down, we win. It's like with baseball when you are in the field, and you rehearse what you are going to do if the ball comes to you. You mentally think it over so you physically react when the play happens.

That said.. mistakes happen, and you move on. He had the 2 picks, and he also made the big play in OT. It's been a good year for him.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I can't give Ihedigbo a pass on the play. I get the idea that reactions take over, but before the play happens you know the DB's are all saying the same thing... knock it down, we win. It's like with baseball when you are in the field, and you rehearse what you are going to do if the ball comes to you. You mentally think it over so you physically react when the play happens.

That said.. mistakes happen, and you move on. He had the 2 picks, and he also made the big play in OT. It's been a good year for him.

 

I think he thought he had more air on the ball than he did. Just my take, and you know I'm not a habitual apologist like some. I'd call him out if I felt it was necessary - but I just honestly feel like he thought he was going to bat it down, but didn't have as much air under him as he thought.

[SportsGuy]

Why wasn't the AJ Green fumble overturned?  Wasn't that obvious?

[JordanKough]

I'm curious how much wind conditions have played a part in the last two games.  

 

We've all talked consistently about how Joe is good at deep balls and we all know how that vertical passing game gets influenced substantially by the wind.  A few thoughts on Joe's game.

 

1.  The Jones pass was slightly under thrown but it was a good ball.  It's easy to criticize, but you want to put the ball somewhere that your guy can go make a play.  Jones had beaten his guy so badly I thought Joe put it in the right spot.  There was no way the S was going to get turned around as all he was doing was catching up.  I know Joe doesn't get credit for those yards but that was a 50+ yard throw.  There aren't but 8 or 10 guys in the league that can do that.  And there are only 5 that can do that with that kind of precision.  It doesn't get added to his yardage total, but it should.

 

2.  The bootleg touchdown that followed this infuriated me.  Joe makes a great play.  But go back and watch it again.  The only passing option there is Dallas Clark.  Literally the only guy on the right side of the field is Clark.  Rice drags to the middle and he stops (he would have easily come open if he kept moving laterally).  And that's it.  If the S doesn't lose Clark and Joe doesn't make a perfect thrown this is a terribly busted play.  Joe needs to get more than the average credit there for his play, because this play was a perfect example of why I hate the Ravens play calling this year.  

 

If you're going to bootleg waggle like that and have a block/go down, get up route for the TE, you also drag the FB and you a run a crosser from the other TE.  Sigh...that's high school football stuff right there.  We can't even call a 3 receiver play action bootleg waggle right...that's dumb.

 

3.  Joe's ball to Torrey should have been caught.  I don't know what Torrey was doing, but he definitely slowed down.  But this is why Joe's balls that have been a bit short are important.  There are rarely uncontested catches in the league.  For all the heat on Joe about the balls that have been a bit short, it's clear that even the burners after churning for 50 yards are going to struggle to catch that ball if they don't have time to slow down a bit and get under it.  That was a 40+ passing play that AJ Green catches in that situation.

 

4.  Confusion/Bad Decisions.  I counted probably 4 passes that Joe made that I just didn't get.  At least twice he threw into double coverage.  Though it seemed upon replay that on one Marlon Brown just fell down on his route.  What I don't get is this.  If Joe is going to make bad decisions like this occasionally you've got to simplify the passing tree/routes/patterns.

 

Go back and watch the Ravens screen pass to Torrey Smith on the short yardage play.  Even those Joe short arms the throw a bit, I don't remember there being enough blockers there for that to be a successful play.  In a short yardage play on this down, this is mostly a terrible call.  Now, the question to me is, did Joe make this decision or was this on the list of play calls available for 3rd and short.  The execution ended up being poor, either way though...but is Joe being put in a position when he gets into no huddle that good options are there for success.  When you pair that with the awful bootleg waggle play I'm just not so sure.

 

5.  The drops.  Good lord the drops.  If you don't think the drops are going to Joe's head you've got to be crazy.  It's one thing to throw into tight windows and expect your guy to win.  But right now Joe has to be scared to death that like in the Buffalo game every single pass is going to get bobbled by his guy if he's covered and fall incomplete or get INTed.  It seems like the only guy in traffic Joe will throw to is Torrey.  

 

I thought the game plan started well.  We used short yardage routes, we got into a rhythm, we started to set up the long ball which would set up the run if we had a running game...and then Clark drops an easy pass for a first.  I'm just holding out hope that we can miraculously go to Chicago and win and somehow Pitta comes back for the stretch of 3 big home games.  Because if he doesn't come back I just don't see how this team can win 3 of the next 4 games with the offense still in shambles.

[JordanKough]

Let me add this.  The officiating this week was horrible.  They missed a ton of calls.  In all directions.  It was pathetic.