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EDIT: Baltimore Arena Renovation


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#61 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:10 PM

I don't see any way you're going to get a better deal than what Hackerman is offering. Although the article said something about him having trouble raising the funds....I wonder if that refers to what he wants in public contributions, or if he is having trouble securing financing for his own portion of the cost?

 

Either way, as Sean and Chris said, there is no way the city can do this even if the political will was there, which of course it isn't. It is going to have to be the state that comes up with the money. But they can kill 2 birds with 1 stone here, a new arena and an expanded convention center. I don't want to get too much into taxes, but I read in a previous article about this project that restaurant taxes in Baltimore are well below the national average for comparable cities. Seems like one way to raise revenues to pay the bonds the state would have to sell. I certainly wouldn't curtail eating out over a couple bucks each time....I might even make a point to do it more often given the cause it's going to.



#62 mweb08

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:23 PM

I would like to see studies that show it's a wise decision to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on an arena/stadium. From what I have heard, it's generally not a good idea.

 

At least in this case, there is a fair amount of private funding, so that helps.



#63 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:41 PM

I would like to see studies that show it's a wise decision to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on an arena/stadium. From what I have heard, it's generally not a good idea.

 

At least in this case, there is a fair amount of private funding, so that helps.

 

Depends on what you define as a wise decision. I've seen no published study that suggests that municipalities actually benefit economically from building stadiums/arenas, or convention centers. That even takes into account creating jobs, both short and long term, and bringing revenues to nearby businesses, as these projects are often touted as doing. The evidence usually suggests you are only taking dollars away from other businesses and municipal projects/needs rather than creating new revenue streams. Any benefits of doing this are usually intangible. But I don't hear a lot of regret over building the 2 stadiums in Camden Yards, even if the state never ends up on the plus-side of the ledger.



#64 NewMarketSean

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:41 PM

I don't see any way you're going to get a better deal than what Hackerman is offering. Although the article said something about him having trouble raising the funds....I wonder if that refers to what he wants in public contributions, or if he is having trouble securing financing for his own portion of the cost?

 

Either way, as Sean and Chris said, there is no way the city can do this even if the political will was there, which of course it isn't. It is going to have to be the state that comes up with the money. But they can kill 2 birds with 1 stone here, a new arena and an expanded convention center. I don't want to get too much into taxes, but I read in a previous article about this project that restaurant taxes in Baltimore are well below the national average for comparable cities. Seems like one way to raise revenues to pay the bonds the state would have to sell. I certainly wouldn't curtail eating out over a couple bucks each time....I might even make a point to do it more often given the cause it's going to.

They raised tolls to be comparable to surrounding states so I am sure the restaurant taxes havent been raised yet either.


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#65 mweb08

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:06 PM

Depends on what you define as a wise decision. I've seen no published study that suggests that municipalities actually benefit economically from building stadiums/arenas, or convention centers. That even takes into account creating jobs, both short and long term, and bringing revenues to nearby businesses, as these projects are often touted as doing. The evidence usually suggests you are only taking dollars away from other businesses and municipal projects/needs rather than creating new revenue streams. Any benefits of doing this are usually intangible. But I don't hear a lot of regret over building the 2 stadiums in Camden Yards, even if the state never ends up on the plus-side of the ledger.

 

Yeah, that's a significant problem to me, especially when it's doubtful this arena would even bring in a major pro team. 

 

As for the two stadiums in Camden Yards, well OPACY is a jewel and the football stadium was needed to bring in the Ravens, and I'm sure there are those that don't care much for sports that would have rather have seen the money used differently. But again, at least they were for the 2 sports that are easily the most important to Baltimore, while a new arena likely won't bring in a NBA or NHL team, and those aren't nearly as important to the people in and around the city anyway IMO.



#66 Oriole85

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:29 AM

Baltimore Sun: Response to Wizards game in Baltimore highlights need for new arena

 

http://www.baltimore...0,1323443.story

 

Though this kind of event always reignites the debate over the current status of Baltimore as a two-major-sport town, there is no hidden agenda here. There is little prospect of the NBA or NHL team landing in the area in the foreseeable future, but the game still highlighted the need for a modern arena that would draw more big events to the city.


The old arena still hosts some attractive events, but a full-size, state-of-the-art facility would make Baltimore a much more popular destination for big-time rock acts, major sporting events and conventions. It would also enhance the region’s prospects for a successful bid to host the 2024 Summer Olympics.


There is interest in developing a plan for a larger arena and a major expansion of the convention center complex, but the projected cost has been estimated at $900 million, which appears to be prohibitive under the prevailing economic conditions.


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#67 DuffMan

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:33 AM

Maybe Angelos could use all of the MASN money he's been hoarding to help pay a large portion of the costs.



#68 NewMarketSean

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:55 PM

The new arena will get built if the RL falls through, which many still think it will despite some slow progress on it.

 

Together, these 2 projects would cost the city $3 billion on paper, and surely that number would increase as the projects got going.

 

So $3 billion in this economy for things that many people don't deem necessary to the city.

 

Doesnt look good for either.


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#69 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 02:09 PM

The new arena will get built if the RL falls through, which many still think it will despite some slow progress on it.

 

Together, these 2 projects would cost the city $3 billion on paper, and surely that number would increase as the projects got going.

 

So $3 billion in this economy for things that many people don't deem necessary to the city.

 

Doesnt look good for either.

 

The large majority of the Red Line costs will come from federal and state funds. And even whether it is built or not, an arena would still have to be spearheaded by the state. Waiting for the city to do it on its own is both unfeasible and probably never going to happen.



#70 NewMarketSean

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:25 PM

Still, that's $3 billion in projects...the money of which is going to come from somewhere, state, federal, city, etc.

 

I just dont see it happening.

 

When push comes to shove I dont see the RL happening even though they've spent a lot of money on it already in research and planning. But it'll probably be in development hell for another 10 years before there's a definitive answer on its fate.


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#71 DuffMan

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 11:52 AM

http://www.baltimore...,0,784235.story

 

Willard Hackerman just died, does that also spell the end of any chance of a new arena being built in Baltimore?



#72 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:01 PM

http://www.baltimore...,0,784235.story

 

Willard Hackerman just died, does that also spell the end of any chance of a new arena being built in Baltimore?


Man, that is depressing. Condolences to his family.



#73 DJ MC

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:23 PM

http://www.baltimore...,0,784235.story

 

Willard Hackerman just died, does that also spell the end of any chance of a new arena being built in Baltimore?

 

Wow. He worked at Whiting-Turner for 75 years? That's insane.

 

I don't think there's anything that spells the "end of any chance", simply because it will have to be built eventually, whether in five years when the city decides to expand the convention center or in 50 years when the current Arena collapses from old age.


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#74 NewMarketSean

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:29 PM

I was just about to post this. 

 

He was our best chance to get an arena built in our lifetime. 

 

Sadly, chances of a new state of the art arena died with him.

 

Sounds like a great man who did a lot for the city. He will be missed.


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#75 BaltBird 24

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:06 PM

I've never been to First Mariner or "Baltimore Arena," but is it really that outdated and in need of replacement? I can't see Baltimore ever getting an NBA or NHL team, and it seems perfectly fine for concerts or whatever else they intend to hold there. The UFC is coming in April. Assuming it does well, perhaps it will be able to host a few more future UFC events in the future.



#76 NewMarketSean

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:14 PM

I've never been to First Mariner or "Baltimore Arena," but is it really that outdated and in need of replacement? I can't see Baltimore ever getting an NBA or NHL team, and it seems perfectly fine for concerts or whatever else they intend to hold there. The UFC is coming in April. Assuming it does well, perhaps it will be able to host a few more future UFC events in the future.

 

Yes, for a city the size of Baltimore -- the 1st Mariner arena is outdated, and has been for over twenty years.

 

However, it is paid off, still makes money and occasionally draws a decent concert or event that keeps it in use.

 

It's a 1980 Ford Escort that still runs owned buy a guy who makes $100,000 a year.


I never had friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?

#77 Oriole85

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:15 PM

I've never been to First Mariner or "Baltimore Arena," but is it really that outdated and in need of replacement? I can't see Baltimore ever getting an NBA or NHL team, and it seems perfectly fine for concerts or whatever else they intend to hold there. The UFC is coming in April. Assuming it does well, perhaps it will be able to host a few more future UFC events in the future.

I was there for the Pam Shriver thing in middle school(so about 15 years ago plus), it was very outdated then.


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#78 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:21 PM

The second you walk into that place you feel like you're back in the 1980s....which is sorta cool I guess.


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#79 DJ MC

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:22 PM

I've never been to First Mariner or "Baltimore Arena," but is it really that outdated and in need of replacement? I can't see Baltimore ever getting an NBA or NHL team, and it seems perfectly fine for concerts or whatever else they intend to hold there. The UFC is coming in April. Assuming it does well, perhaps it will be able to host a few more future UFC events in the future.

 

A city like Baltimore shouldn't be settling for concerts and the circus. We should be fighting for NCAA regionals and political conventions, even taking professional franchises out of the equation.

 

We aren't talking about cities like Orlando, Miami, Memphis and Charlotte that built NBA-caliber arenas in the late '80s and early '90s but replaced them within fifteen years. This is an arena that was relatively small at the time it opened (Cole Field House was bigger, and opened a decade earlier) and is fifty years old.


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#80 Pedro Cerrano

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:23 PM

Yea the more I think about it the more pathetic it is that THIS is our best effort at an indoor arena.  I mean, come on Baltimore, step it up.


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There is baseball, and occasionally there are other things of note

"Now OPS sucks.  Got it."

"Making his own olive brine is peak Mackus."

"I'm too hungover to watch a loss." - McNulty

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