471 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'd rather have Wilson than all those other things if I'm a team trying to contend.  Good deal for the Broncos, IMO.  They'll miss Harris and Fant a bit, but overall I think the juice is worth the squeeze here.  Wilson is incredibly good.

 

Wilson is awesome.  Or at-least has been and I'm sure will be again. 

Denver has wanted / needed a legitimate QB for years, and now they have one. 

That said, I'd rather have the picks and the $ though. 

 

I absolutely believe you can build a championship caliber team - even in this era - without a Top 10 QB. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

I’m with Chris, I think Seattle won this deal, pretty clearly so. Also think Denver got what they needed, so they aren’t losers here either. I respect Seattle for looking out for their long term. It’s just ridiculously hard to win a ring with a QB that’s at or near the peak of the modern day cap numbers.

In fact, it hasn’t happened.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I’m with Chris, I think Seattle won this deal, pretty clearly so. Also think Denver got what they needed, so they aren’t losers here either. I respect Seattle for looking out for their long term. It’s just ridiculously hard to win a ring with a QB that’s at or near the peak of the modern day cap numbers.

In fact, it hasn’t happened.

 

I think the Seahawks are a big loser here, at least in terms of being competitive again anytime soon. The #9 pick is nice ordinarily, but when you are in dire need of a QB and this draft features only one worth taking at that spot (Willis, who is probably going to be gone before 9), then you're pretty screwed. No other QB is even worth a 1st Rd pick (though I'm sure a couple will get picked anyway).

 

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks something is finally up with ownership here. It's probably coincidence, but the Seahawks trading away their franchise QB right after the Trail Blazers gut their roster, thus reducing payrolls, would seem to be a precursor to a sale. It's been 3.5 years since Paul Allen died, and anyone who knew him would tell you it was never his intent for his sister to own the teams long-term.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think the Seahawks are a big loser here, at least in terms of being competitive again anytime soon. The #9 pick is nice ordinarily, but when you are in dire need of a QB and this draft features only one worth taking at that spot (Willis, who is probably going to be gone before 9), then you're pretty screwed. No other QB is even worth a 1st Rd pick (though I'm sure a couple will get picked anyway).

 

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks something is finally up with ownership here. It's probably coincidence, but the Seahawks trading away their franchise QB right after the Trail Blazers gut their roster, thus reducing payrolls, would seem to be a precursor to a sale. It's been 3.5 years since Paul Allen died, and anyone who knew him would tell you it was never his intent for his sister to own the teams long-term.

Do you think Seattle had any chance in hell at legitimately contending next year anyway? Or the year after? That team is barren right now, outside of the offense. This frees up a ton of financial resources, as well as provides draft capital to build back a consistent contender. Yes, they're back in the boat as any other team without a cornerstone QB right now, welcome to the party, they'll have to get that right, but they weren't winning as currently constructed anyway.

 

It seems fans are much more tolerant of losing with an entertaining offense or even just QB - but I'm more in the, you're either trying to win a Super Bowl or building towards that long-term camp. It really is incredibly hard to do it when that much cap space is going to one player.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Do you think Seattle had any chance in hell at legitimately contending next year anyway? Or the year after? That team is barren right now, outside of the offense. This frees up a ton of financial resources, as well as provides draft capital to build back a consistent contender. Yes, they're back in the boat as any other team without a cornerstone QB right now, welcome to the party, they'll have to get that right, but they weren't winning as currently constructed anyway.

 

It seems fans are much more tolerant of losing with an entertaining offense or even just QB - but I'm more in the, you're either trying to win a Super Bowl or building towards that long-term camp. It really is incredibly hard to do it when that much cap space is going to one player.

 

I think their path back was shorter trying to rebuild around Wilson than blowing it up the same year of a QB-barren draft. 2022 will be a wasted season for them. Maybe some of their fans will find their way to the board here. If anyone knows about wasted seasons, it's O's fans.

 

Plus the return really isn't all that great. The #9 pick is good, but that 1st Rounder next year is likely in the 20s. Fant and Harris are solid, but not great starters. Lock doesn't belong in the NFL...but if they're targeting Young or Stroud in the 2023 draft, starting him all 17 games this year is probably their plan.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think their path back was shorter trying to rebuild around Wilson than blowing it up the same year of a QB-barren draft. 2022 will be a wasted season for them. Maybe some of their fans will find their way to the board here. If anyone knows about wasted seasons, it's O's fans.

 

Plus the return really isn't all that great. The #9 pick is good, but that 1st Rounder next year is likely in the 20s. Fant and Harris are solid, but not great starters. Lock doesn't belong in the NFL...but if they're targeting Young or Stroud in the 2023 draft, starting him all 17 games this year is probably their plan.

I don't see a path for them with Wilson at that cap number and all the holes they had. Playoffs, possible. But that shouldn't be the goal. Any season where a Championship literally isn't possible, is a wasted season IMO.

[Mackus]

I don't think Seattle got enough.  Two 1st and 2 2nds.  I guess that's fine, but it's not crazy.  None of the players matter as far as helping them win in the future.  Fant is an ok tight end who is about to be too expensive.  Harris is 30 years old.  Maybe they can flip those guys for other picks, that's what I'd look to do if they're really punting for a year or three, which when you trade away Wilson is what you're likely doing.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Might as well see what they can get for Metcalf and Lockett too. No sense having great WRs when your QB room consists of Drew Lock and Geno Smith. If you're gonna tank, embrace it all the way.

[Mackus]

If whatever QB they take in this year's draft ends up being good, then the trade will go down as a good one.  If they get someone who sinks after 3 or 4 seasons and they're in the same position, it'll go down as a very bad one.  Weird that the trade will be defined by someone not involved, but that's how it works at that position.  Especially when you move on from a stud.

 

Has any team ever let walk or traded away a QB of this level without already having the successor in house or in mind (i.e. Luck being the clear #1 pick when Indy let Peyton walk).  Brees leaving SD is an example of a team letting a good QB go, but he wasn't yet close what he became in NO at the time.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Brees leaving SD is an example of a team letting a good QB go, but he wasn't yet close what he became in NO at the time.

 

And they already had Rivers, who Schottenheimer clearly preferred.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think at these modern cap numbers, you’re going to start seeing it a lot more. The past several SB Champs didn’t have an enormous cap hit at the QB position.

[Mackus]

I think at these modern cap numbers, you’re going to start seeing it a lot more. The past several SB Champs didn’t have an enormous cap hit at the QB position.

 

LA had $45M of this year's dedicated to the QB position.  $20M for Stafford and nearly $25M in dead money for Goff.

 

Mahomes and Brady were the past champions.  Mahomes obviously was on rookie deal, and everyone agrees that the best scenario is a stud QB on a rookie deal.  Brady was on a pretty big FA deal, but it was Year 1 so the cap hit wasn't much.

 

Those were all good to stud QBs.  Mahomes is the best on the planet right now.  Brady is the best of all time.  Stafford doesn't reach those levels, but he was a #1 pick who's quite good just was mired in a disastrous situation in Detroit.  I think having a really good QB is the takeaway moreso than not having a lot of cap space committed to that position.  If you can do both, great, but having a guy is more important than not having a big cap allocation, IMO.  I don't have anything to back this up but I think that'll show up if you look at the teams that consistently make the playoffs and move past the WC round and beyond.

 

I don't think we'll see teams move on from top-10 type QBs often rather than pay them top dollar.  Wilson is a bit of an edge case as a guy who was disgruntled and wanted out, at least to some degree.  Stafford himself was also in a similar situation.  I do think we'll eventually see teams decide to move on from middle tier QBs rather than pay them 2nd tier money.  It hasn't happened with any regularity yet, but we've seen teams move on from guys like Winston.  But so far, those solid but not top-10 QBs like Tannehill, Cousins, Carr, etc have gotten paid as well.  Less than the top guys, but still massive cap hits.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think they’ll pay them too dollar, get tired of losing, and do what Seattle just did.

[Chris B]

The Jamal Adams deal really screwed SEA. This basically just replaces the draft value you lost there, plus you lose Russ.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I don't think we'll see teams move on from top-10 type QBs often rather than pay them top dollar.  Wilson is a bit of an edge case as a guy who was disgruntled and wanted out, at least to some degree.  Stafford himself was also in a similar situation.  I do think we'll eventually see teams decide to move on from middle tier QBs rather than pay them 2nd tier money.  It hasn't happened with any regularity yet, but we've seen teams move on from guys like Winston.  But so far, those solid but not top-10 QBs like Tannehill, Cousins, Carr, etc have gotten paid as well.  Less than the top guys, but still massive cap hits.

 

Yeah, as you mentioned earlier there's a reason you see this happen so rarely. The only thing close to comparable to this I could think of is when the Falcons let Vick go, and there were obviously very extenuating circumstances with that decision. If the Texans trade Watson, that would be another one similar to Vick.

 

Outside of Wilson perhaps quietly stating he wanted out, there were no such issues for the Seahawks.

 

Apparently Washington offered three first round picks for Wilson, but Seattle wanted him out of the NFC. I don't agree with that decision. Maybe if it was another NFC West team I could see it, but otherwise you take the best offer on the table.

[Mackus]

I think they’ll pay them too dollar, get tired of losing, and do what Seattle just did.

Maybe. I'd rather be Denver right now than Seattle though.

[Mackus]

Apparently Washington offered three first round picks for Wilson, but Seattle wanted him out of the NFC. I don't agree with that decision. Maybe if it was another NFC West team I could see it, but otherwise you take the best offer on the table.

Agree, assuming the players were comparable. Especially Washington, a team that can't seem to get out of its own way. I'd rather have their picks than Denver's. Although I suppose you could argue a '22 and '23 2nd is worth more than a '24 1st? And Denver's 22 is better than Was by a little bit too.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Agree, assuming the players were comparable. Especially Washington, a team that can't seem to get out of its own way. I'd rather have their picks than Denver's. Although I suppose you could argue a '22 and '23 2nd is worth more than a '24 1st? And Denver's 22 is better than Was by a little bit too.

 

There's two spots between their 1st's this year. Not sure what it would cost in picks to move from #11 to #9. Definitely agree it would depend on whether Washington was throwing in more picks besides just 3 firsts. I saw it in a tweet from Albert Breer, and he didn't mention what else Washington offered

 

Washington could probably match the players that Denver did, they aren't worth much. For Seattle to get anything from this trade, they will need to hit it on the picks.

 

As incompetent as they generally are Washington does play in the NFC East, whereas even with Wilson Denver still faces a gauntlet in their division. So projecting the space between their picks in '23 might not be as cut-and-dry as it sounds.

 

In the end ('22 draft aside) it's probably best to just evaluate it straight up by the picks and round, rather than exactly where in the round you think they could end up, then hope for the best.

[BSLMikeLowe]

They’re also releasing Bobby Wagner. So that’s both of their only remaining players from the 2013 Super Bowl team gone on the same day.

[mdrunning]

With Rodgers' reported new deal, and with Russell Wilson likely to sign a new contract with Denver sooner rather than later, that franchise tag suddenly became a much more costly option for the Ravens should they ultimately go that route with Lamar Jackson.