360 replies to this topic

[russsnyder]

Absolutely, and I am not defending Gruden, just stating some opinions I have with cancel culture stuff.

That said, is this really even cancel culture? These emails were turned up during an investigation unrelated to Gruden. It's not like the Twitter mob discovered them to run him out of town. And then he resigned. I think he could have maybe survived this had he decided to stay and the team kept winning, but he made the right decision for his players and coaches. It would have been a major distraction.

You can probably make a case either way if this is cancel culture or not. I'll just say that there is no way that Gruden would have been able to keep his job in the current environment of the NFL. He was likely given the choice to resign or to be fired.

[BobPhelan]

I agree and pretty much said just that in the post you quoted.

Just re-read it and yeah I mis-read it, my fault.

[NewMarketSean]

You can probably make a case either way if this is cancel culture or not. I'll just say that there is no way that Gruden would have been able to keep his job in the current environment of the NFL. He was likely given the choice to resign or to be fired.

It's not just "today's NFL". Society is changing for better or worse and this kind of thing is liable to happen anywhere.

[russsnyder]

Chappelle is saying what he says in real time, though. It's not like it's being dug up from 2011.

I can like Chappelle but dislike what he says sometimes. And that is a lot of what comedy used to be, saying stuff that pissed people off but made them laugh at the same time. That is severely lacking in today's world. That, and the ability to not have to agree or like everything about a person.

And, if Netflix doesn't want him fired or remove his special, that's another business decision.

We used to be able to laugh at ourselves or how ridiculous things are. We lost that ability a long time ago. Cancel culture can work either way. Real time or stuff in the past.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Exactly what you say plays a part but there defintely should be a higher standard for adults vs teens or even dudes in their early 20s

[russsnyder]

It's not just "today's NFL". Society is changing for better or worse and this kind of thing is liable to happen anywhere.

My point is that he probably doesn't have the same scrutiny from the league if this surfaced three years ago. He apologizes to Smith and everyone moves on. The NFL had Gruden in their sights and made sure these emails came to light.

[mweb08]

Plenty of comedians say a lot of politically incorrect things and low and behold, they're still getting paid to do stand up. Chappelle has been on some anti transgender thing for several years now and what's happened to him? He apparently escalated it on his most recent special (haven't watched yet) and predictably the other side has voiced their displeasure, and he has ample opportunity to respond. Isn't that what's supposed to happen in a society like ours?

[mweb08]

It's not just "today's NFL". Society is changing for better or worse and this kind of thing is liable to happen anywhere.

Being held accountable for racism, misogyny, or homophobia should fall under the better side of that spectrum. Same with being held accountable for sexual assualt, which has been another big aspect of so called cancel culture.

[NewMarketSean]

Being held accountable for racism, misogyny, or homophobia should fall under the better side of that spectrum. Same with being held accountable for sexual assualt, which has been another big aspect of so called cancel culture.

Absolutely agree but it can get selective on when it’s applied and what the consequences are.

[mweb08]

Absolutely agree but it can get selective on when it’s applied and what the consequences are.

Much of that is because we live in what is largely a free market, so different companies are going to have different approaches.

[Old Man]

My point is that he probably doesn't have the same scrutiny from the league if this surfaced three years ago. He apologizes to Smith and everyone moves on. The NFL had Gruden in their sights and made sure these emails came to light.

He should have been dealt with years ago. Not swept under the rug.

[NewMarketSean]

He should have been dealt with years ago. Not swept under the rug.

Do you remember emails you sent 10 years ago? Much less 10 days ago? Gruden probably forget they even existed.

[russsnyder]

He should have been dealt with years ago. Not swept under the rug.

It wasn't swept under the rug. The investigation conducted by the NFL on the WFT uncovered the emails between Gruden and Bruce Allen.The odds are that if the WFT wasn't being investigated by the NFL these emails probably don't come to light. He sent them so he needs to own them and their contents.

[mweb08]

Do you remember emails you sent 10 years ago? Much less 10 days ago? Gruden probably forget they even existed.

I'm pretty sure he didn't forget that he had all those bigoted opinions. Whether he recalls the exact emails is a different matter. If he says (or said) stuff like that all the time, it's probably not as memorable, but that ain't exactly a defense I'd use.

[mweb08]

https://twitter.com/...2YBpuWEF2g&s=19

[Old Man]

Do you remember emails you sent 10 years ago? Much less 10 days ago? Gruden probably forget they even existed.

I get that point.

 

BUT, and a large BUT.

 

My emails from 10 years ago, were not racist either, abusive about women.

 

Another key point to be made.

 

These emails didnt stay behind in 2011, they followed him, to what 2017 or 2019?

 

I bet if you dug deep enough, probably even after that.

 

It didnt happen overnight, lots of people know about his behaviors and looked the other way.

[The Epic]

Sigh.

 

*walks up to the word "cancel"*

 

*replaces it with the word "consequences"*

 

*walks away*

[weird-O]

There have been quite a few comparisons of emails to twitter posts. If I post terrible things on twitter, I'm making bad choices, because tweeting is the same as standing on a public corner with a bullhorn, only more people will hear you through tweets. Gruden typed a bunch of narrow minded thoughts, but weren't they private communications between him and the recipient? That doesn't feel the same to me. That stuff wasn't meant for public consumption. That's the thing that's not sitting well with me. I don't like or dislike the man, and I don't know much about him. So I can honestly say that my opinions are free of any emotion. Even as a public figure, he should be afforded some degree of privacy. Especially if these communications were discovered as a result of an otherwise unrelated investigation. 

[The Epic]

There have been quite a few comparisons of emails to twitter posts. If I post terrible things on twitter, I'm making bad choices, because tweeting is the same as standing on a public corner with a bullhorn, only more people will hear you through tweets. Gruden typed a bunch of narrow minded thoughts, but weren't they private communications between him and the recipient? That doesn't feel the same to me. That stuff wasn't meant for public consumption. That's the thing that's not sitting well with me. I don't like or dislike the man, and I don't know much about him. So I can honestly say that my opinions are free of any emotion. Even as a public figure, he should be afforded some degree of privacy. Especially if these communications were discovered as a result of an otherwise unrelated investigation. 

 

He sent it on his work email. To someone else on his work email. With work clients cc'd.

[russsnyder]

There have been quite a few comparisons of emails to twitter posts. If I post terrible things on twitter, I'm making bad choices, because tweeting is the same as standing on a public corner with a bullhorn, only more people will hear you through tweets. Gruden typed a bunch of narrow minded thoughts, but weren't they private communications between him and the recipient? That doesn't feel the same to me. That stuff wasn't meant for public consumption. That's the thing that's not sitting well with me. I don't like or dislike the man, and I don't know much about him. So I can honestly say that my opinions are free of any emotion. Even as a public figure, he should be afforded some degree of privacy. Especially if these communications were discovered as a result of an otherwise unrelated investigation.

I think you make an interesting point.

What it boils down to is that the NFL chose to leak the emails to the press even though they were outside the investigation of the WFT.

Were he and his employer strong armed by the league? I'd say yes, since he coached the weekend after the initial email came out.I think the moral of the story is that like or not, none of us has any real privacy when it comes to electronic communications.