360 replies to this topic

[Nigel Tufnel]

Yeah, I think some of the new e-mails were as recent as 2019.

[ivanbalt]

I think Gruden checked every box in terms of people he offended.

[You Play to Win the Game]

It's not like 2011 is the mid 1800's. There's no excuse for it. This is yet another in a long list of what Trumpism has done to this country. When people get caught and held accountable for bad behavior, it's all "that isn't fair, cancel culture, wahhhhhh". Crazy ass world we're living in.

 

Also, Gruden resigned - so he canceled himself. 

[NewMarketSean]

Yeah, I think some of the new e-mails were as recent as 2019.

Well that for me is a game changer. TBH I haven't stayed up on the recent developments from yesterday.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Well that for me is a game changer. TBH I haven't stayed up on the recent developments from yesterday.

 

I may have been wrong about 2019 - I think the newest ones were supposedly from 2017... still pretty recent.

[NewMarketSean]

It's not like 2011 is the mid 1800's. There's no excuse for it. This is yet another in a long list of what Trumpism has done to this country. When people get caught and held accountable for bad behavior, it's all "that isn't fair, cancel culture, wahhhhhh". Crazy ass world we're living in.

 

Also, Gruden resigned - so he canceled himself. 

To me I think CC denies the truth that humans are flawed and can learn and grow from their mistakes.

 

But if he was still sending out hateful emails within the last couple years, then yeah, he deserves what he gets.

 

I'm not defending Gruden, I'm talking more about people who posted something horrible on Twitter or something when they were 17 and 6-7 years later they're held accountable for it because someone dug through their history in 2021. Something like what happened to Josh Hader.

 

I just think a good portion of CC is a bloodthirsty mob that will eventually come for anyone.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Its the culture he grew up in and language he grew up hearing and using. Same here. Its not hard as a grown ass adult to be more conscious of the words you use and how they affect other people. I doubt he has any real beef with Carl Nassib. Probably is glad he was on his team.

[Old Man]

It's not like 2011 is the mid 1800's. There's no excuse for it. This is yet another in a long list of what Trumpism has done to this country. When people get caught and held accountable for bad behavior, it's all "that isn't fair, cancel culture, wahhhhhh". Crazy ass world we're living in.

 

Also, Gruden resigned - so he canceled himself. 

Gruden was 100% wrong.

 

Can you make a single post, without faulting Trump for every single issue in he universe?

 

Society has been going downhill long before Trump and will continue until they wake up and I dont see it happening.

 

Social Media isnt helping too much.

 

Question for you, caught and held accountable, you said?  You mean like Hillary is in jail for her misdeeds as secretary of defense? 

[You Play to Win the Game]

To me I think CC denies the truth that humans are flawed and can learn and grow from their mistakes.

But if he was still sending out hateful emails within the last couple years, then yeah, he deserves what he gets.

I'm not defending Gruden, I'm talking more about people who posted something horrible on Twitter or something when they were 17 and 6-7 years later they're held accountable for it because someone dug through their history in 2021. Something like what happened to Josh Hader.

I just think a good portion of CC is a bloodthirsty mob that will eventually come for anyone.

No doubt. And I'm one of them.

I do think the lack of humanity, compassion and sympathy with stuff like that doesn't actually help the problem, it tends to only harden those in that camp. Which is why we're seeing so many people blindly follow a criminal, thug former President who is actively trying to overthrow democracy.

But that said, isn't what he said egregious? Shouldn't a professional in his 50's know better? Shouldn't he have evolved prior to 2011? Like with all the information and diversity in society today, shouldn't expectations be higher than they were 10 years ago?

[mweb08]

It's interesting to see so many people that are allegedly all about personal responsibility argue that rich and powerful people shouldn't be held accountable for their displays of racism, misogyny, homophobia, and other bigotry. I guess it's just personal responsibility for being poor and/or locked up?

Gruden will be just fine like so many others that have been so called cancelled.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It's interesting to see so many people that are allegedly all about personal responsibility argue that rich and powerful people shouldn't be held accountable for their displays of racism, misogyny, homophobia, and other bigotry. I guess it's just personal responsibility for being poor and/or locked up?

Gruden will be just fine like so many others that have been so called cancelled.

Technically he resigned . Is that not taking responsibilty. Have you seen anyone anywhere say he shouldnt have resigned or been fired?

[mweb08]

Technically he resigned . Is that not taking responsibilty. Have you seen anyone anywhere say he shouldnt have resigned or been fired?

People are saying he's being cancelled.

Yes, I've definitely seen people saying that.

As for taking responsibility, well he was very much pressured into it. If he left without asking for anymore of what's left on his contract, then that will be a good sign of taking responsibility.

[russsnyder]

To me I think CC denies the truth that humans are flawed and can learn and grow from their mistakes.

But if he was still sending out hateful emails within the last couple years, then yeah, he deserves what he gets.

I'm not defending Gruden, I'm talking more about people who posted something horrible on Twitter or something when they were 17 and 6-7 years later they're held accountable for it because someone dug through their history in 2021. Something like what happened to Josh Hader.

I just think a good portion of CC is a bloodthirsty mob that will eventually come for anyone.

It seems to me that Gruden got caught in the crosshairs after the email about DeMaurice Smith came to light.I believe that email was 10 years old. Gruden apologizedto Smith, but he also made it seem that it was one off thing.

Unfortunately, for him the NFL is investigating the WFT and these other emails that were sent to Bruce Allen came to light as part of the investigation.

I'm not surprised that he was forced out and I think that the real danger of cancel culture is that people are being being tossed aside by things that they said on social media years before. You bring up a good point about Josh Hader ( You can include Patrick Ricard as well.) being outed about some tweets that he made as a teenager. I believe you are also correct that cancel culture will come after anyone. ( Looks like Chappelle is in the crosshairs right now.)

Like Web stated, Gryden will be fine. He has millions. I'm not so sure about the kid that loses their scholarship because of a five year old tweet. People are fallible and they are salvageable as well.

[NewMarketSean]

No doubt. And I'm one of them.

I do think the lack of humanity, compassion and sympathy with stuff like that doesn't actually help the problem, it tends to only harden those in that camp. Which is why we're seeing so many people blindly follow a criminal, thug former President who is actively trying to overthrow democracy.

But that said, isn't what he said egregious? Shouldn't a professional in his 50's know better? Shouldn't he have evolved prior to 2011? Like with all the information and diversity in society today, shouldn't expectations be higher than they were 10 years ago?

Absolutely, and I am not defending Gruden, just stating some opinions I have with cancel culture stuff.

 

That said, is this really even cancel culture? These emails were turned up during an investigation unrelated to Gruden. It's not like the Twitter mob discovered them to run him out of town. And then he resigned. I think he could have maybe survived this had he decided to stay and the team kept winning, but he made the right decision for his players and coaches. It would have been a major distraction.

[Mackus]

Nothing happened to Josh Hader

[BobPhelan]

To me I think CC denies the truth that humans are flawed and can learn and grow from their mistakes.

But if he was still sending out hateful emails within the last couple years, then yeah, he deserves what he gets.

I'm not defending Gruden, I'm talking more about people who posted something horrible on Twitter or something when they were 17 and 6-7 years later they're held accountable for it because someone dug through their history in 2021. Something like what happened to Josh Hader.

I just think a good portion of CC is a bloodthirsty mob that will eventually come for anyone.

But he wasn’t a teenager, he was like 50. Not that you can’t change when you’re older but it’s much less likely plus you should have enough life experience to know better.

Being held accountable is what will lead to changes being made, not a slap on the wrist.

[NewMarketSean]

It seems to me that Gruden got caught in the crosshairs after the email about DeMaurice Smith came to light.I believe that email was 10 years old. Gruden apologizedto Smith, but he also made it seem that it was one off thing.

Unfortunately, for him the NFL is investigating the WFT and these other emails that were sent to Bruce Allen came to light as part of the investigation.

I'm not surprised that he was forced out and I think that the real danger of cancel culture is that people are being being tossed aside by things that they said on social media years before. You bring up a good point about Josh Hader ( You can include Patrick Ricard as well.) being outed about some tweets that he made as a teenager. I believe you are also correct that cancel culture will come after anyone. ( Looks like Chappelle is in the crosshairs right now.)

Like Web stated, Gryden will be fine. He has millions. I'm not so sure about the kid that loses their scholarship because of a five year old tweet. People are fallible and they are salvageable as well.

Chappelle is saying what he says in real time, though. It's not like it's being dug up from 2011.

 

I can like Chappelle but dislike what he says sometimes. And that is a lot of what comedy used to be, saying stuff that pissed people off but made them laugh at the same time. That is severely lacking in today's world. That, and the ability to not have to agree or like everything about a person.

 

And, if Netflix doesn't want him fired or remove his special, that's another business decision.

[NewMarketSean]

Nothing happened to Josh Hader

Nothing except a huge scandal involving his Tweets posted as a teenager while he made his first All Star appearance and completely overshadowed that.

 

I mean he kept his job, but he was judged, ridiculed and worse for being a dumb kid.

[NewMarketSean]

But he wasn’t a teenager, he was like 50. Not that you can’t change when you’re older but it’s much less likely plus you should have enough life experience to know better.

Being held accountable is what will lead to changes being made, not a slap on the wrist.

I agree and pretty much said just that in the post you quoted.

 

Jon Gruden deserved to lose his job over this and this doesn't fit the MO of cancel culture as it's come to be known.

 

I'm just trying to form an opinion as I think about this and know more about what happened.

[mweb08]

Absolutely, and I am not defending Gruden, just stating some opinions I have with cancel culture stuff.

That said, is this really even cancel culture? These emails were turned up during an investigation unrelated to Gruden. It's not like the Twitter mob discovered them to run him out of town. And then he resigned. I think he could have maybe survived this had he decided to stay and the team kept winning, but he made the right decision for his players and coaches. It would have been a major distraction.

Didn't you suggest this was an example of cancel culture?

Who are all these victims of cancel culture. Legit curious to hear this from anyone that thinks it's actually some huge problem.