172 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

Its not as much as what you are saying isn't true but you are putting too much blame on Denver and not giving the credit where the credit is due.

Again, EVERY SINGLE NFL GAME EVER can be broken down and discussed like this...there are tons of plays throughout every game where you can say, if this guy just did his job or if that guy was just a split second sooner, etc....if you want to go down the road and discuss games like that, let's just say that you are always lucky to win any game at any time. Let's never give credit to the winning team and just say, the other team lost the game because of......

I'm talking about one key play here where anyone who is being objective and knows football would realize that was the exact type of play you blame the defense for. So no, not every single NFL game ever can be broken down like that. That's just ignorant. I said he had a very good game, is that not giving him credit? But in this one play, the analysis is incredibly obvious.

And as far as every single NFL game ever can be broken down like this, well when you and others talk about a tough couple of drops in a game and maybe one routine drop and say Flacco could have had better numbers, well that can't be said in every game, but it can be in a lot of them. If you want to give a QB credit on those plays and say Flacco should have been in the SB last year (he should have) then you can't have it both ways here.

[mweb08]

I agree with most of your post, but I don't know what football you watch to say that it was a routine play for the defender and that it wasn't a good deep ball. Considering the pocket collapsing around him, and the pressure of the situation, it was a more than adequate deep ball. Again, with the game on the line, he put the pressure on the DB's by getting the ball there. Was it perfect, over the shoulder, in the end zone... no, but it was good. I honestly don't know how you can say that it wasn't. Once again, you show no willingness at all to give any credit for the circumstances around the play.

I guess I don't watch football through a biased Ravens point of view. I honestly don't know how anyone can say that wasn't a routine defensive play. I have not been this flabbergasted by people's reaction to a play in a long time. I give him credit for giving his receiver a chance and being able to throw the ball that far, and stepping up in the pocket was nice too. It should not have been a completion and that's the bottom line. If you guys want to gush over a guy for a lucky play, go for it. Sorry for raining on your parade.

[SportsGuy]

I'm talking about one key play here where anyone who is being objective and knows football would realize that was the exact type of play you blame the defense for. So no, not every single NFL game ever can be broken down like that. That's just ignorant. I said he had a very good game, is that not giving him credit? But in this one play, the analysis is incredibly obvious.

And as far as every single NFL game ever can be broken down like this, well when you and others talk about a tough couple of drops in a game and maybe one routine drop and say Flacco could have had better numbers, well that can't be said in every game, but it can be in a lot of them. If you want to give a QB credit on those plays and say Flacco should have been in the SB last year (he should have) then you can't have it both ways here.

You never win or lose any sporting event on one play.

And in that one play, Joe made a throw that most NFL Qbs can't make under those same circumstances...The throw itself was pretty remarkable.

But of course, the defensive play was terrible and the Ravens got lucky...no doubt there.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I guess I don't watch football through a biased Ravens point of view. I honestly don't know how anyone can say that wasn't a routine defensive play. I have not been this flabbergasted by people's reaction to a play in a long time. I give him credit for giving his receiver a chance and being able to throw the ball that far, and stepping up in the pocket was nice too. It should not have been a completion and that's the bottom line. If you guys want to gush over a guy for a lucky play, go for it. Sorry for raining on your parade.

I'm not gushing, I said it could have been thrown better. It wasn't perfect, but that doesn't make it not a great play. A lot of QB's never get an opportunity to make a play like that on such a grand stage, with your season on the line. Those that do, get very few opportunities. You choose not to view it as a great play, because of the "process" (shorted the throw a bit), and I choose to view it as a great play because he did a lot right there, and gave Jones a chance to make the play, which he did. There is no doubt that the DB's were caught off guard that Joe escaped that pressure on that play (there was a lot of it), and heaved the ball 60 yards down the field. Why is it that being caught off guard couldn't have had anything to do with the DB misplaying it at the end? Did he misplay it? Yes. Did Joe do just about everything right except maybe give Jones another few yards, he absolutely did. It's a great play.

BTW, to reiterate for the millionth time, the circumstances around this amplify the play even more for me (and could have also been a negative contributing factor to the DB).

This is a situation where as much as you want to make it black and white, it just isn't. It's far from it. And there are a lot of national pundits and football fans in general who would say that's a great play. If you want to believe you're right (I've never known you not to think that ) then that's your right, but to basically say that anyone who think's it was a great play not credible is unproductive and unfair. I think you're off base at this point.

[JordanKough]

Just as an aside. There aren't 16 QBs in the league that could make the throw that Joe did, in terms of distance and accuracy. There just aren't. And you can take another 10 away that wouldn't be able to do it in sub-zero wind chill circumstances to boot on top of that.

I wouldn't label that play as routine either. But I could see how in that situation one would expect the defensive player to make that play. It's just not that 'routine' to be making plays on the ball in the air 60+ yards down the field.

[mweb08]

You never win or lose any sporting event on one play.

And in that one play, Joe made a throw that most NFL Qbs can't make under those same circumstances...The throw itself was pretty remarkable.

But of course, the defensive play was terrible and the Ravens got lucky...no doubt there.

I didn't say anything about winning or losing on one play.

Not sure that most QB's can't throw the ball 54 yards there, but I admit that some can't. Remarkable is very strong of a word to use there imo. He did a good job to give his team a chance there, but as you agree, they and he got lucky there.

[SportsGuy]

I didn't say anything about winning or losing on one play.

Not sure that most QB's can't throw the ball 54 yards there, but I admit that some can't. Remarkable is very strong of a word to use there imo. He did a good job to give his team a chance there, but as you agree, they and he got lucky there.

In that pressure situation, in the cold weather(where the ball isnt traveling as far even in mile high) and to drop it right there? Not many QBs are making that throw.

Now, if the temp was normal and its a reg season game, most NFL QBs could make that throw.

But that was obviously not a normal game condition.

I can tell you this...the other QB on the field couldn't have made that throw.

EDIT: The throw was about 65 yards in the air.

[mweb08]

I'm not gushing, I said it could have been thrown better. It wasn't perfect, but that doesn't make it not a great play. A lot of QB's never get an opportunity to make a play like that on such a grand stage, with your season on the line. Those that do, get very few opportunities. You choose not to view it as a great play, because of the "process" (shorted the throw a bit), and I choose to view it as a great play because he did a lot right there, and gave Jones a chance to make the play, which he did. There is no doubt that the DB's were caught off guard that Joe escaped that pressure on that play (there was a lot of it), and heaved the ball 60 yards down the field. Why is it that being caught off guard couldn't have had anything to do with the DB misplaying it at the end? Did he misplay it? Yes. Did Joe do just about everything right except maybe give Jones another few yards, he absolutely did. It's a great play.

BTW, to reiterate for the millionth time, the circumstances around this amplify the play even more for me (and could have also been a negative contributing factor to the DB).

This is a situation where as much as you want to make it black and white, it just isn't. It's far from it. And there are a lot of national pundits and football fans in general who would say that's a great play. If you want to believe you're right (I've never known you not to think that ) then that's your right, but to basically say that anyone who think's it was a great play not credible is unproductive and unfair. I think you're off base at this point.

It was 54 yards I believe. Even with the D being caught off guard, missing that ball was inexcusable. I'm sure you guys will think this is hyperbole, but I would be embarrassed for not making that play if I was in the safety's position to make a play on the ball. So it's not just about shorting the ball a bit, it's about that play not being completed the vast majority of the time because the safety can easily at least get a hand on it. I can't call it a great throw when the DB had a routine play on the ball and just whiffed. That has nothing to do with my view of Flacco, it's just common sense to me.

I strongly disagree with who is making this black and white. The opposing stance for as much as you want to deny it, is basing their strong praise on the safety screwing up and the pass being completed. So TD equals great, pick equals bad or maybe eh, it was nice to give it a shot there. That's black and white imo.

And I think you're are off base. Great. Let's move on.

[You Play to Win the Game]

It was 54 yards I believe. Even with the D being caught off guard, missing that ball was inexcusable. I'm sure you guys will think this is hyperbole, but I would be embarrassed for not making that play if I was in the safety's position to make a play on the ball. So it's not just about shorting the ball a bit, it's about that play not being completed the vast majority of the time because the safety can easily at least get a hand on it. I can't call it a great throw when the DB had a routine play on the ball and just whiffed. That has nothing to do with my view of Flacco, it's just common sense to me.

I strongly disagree with who is making this black and white. The opposing stance for as much as you want to deny it, is basing their strong praise on the safety screwing up and the pass being completed. So TD equals great, pick equals bad or maybe eh, it was nice to give it a shot there. That's black and white imo.

And I think you're are off base. Great. Let's move on.

You're the guy patronizing Ravens fans: saying you're flabbergasted by our reaction, and apologizing for raining on our parade, etc. That's garbage and you had no reason to go there. If that were Matt Ryan making that play in the exact situation, I would have thought it was a great play.

Yet again, you completely refuse to discuss the circumstances and environment. You pick and choose the points you counter, and ignore a key part of it, IMO.

But yes, I am moving on, because you're wrong and there's no convincing you of that, so there's really no point.

[mweb08]

In that pressure situation, in the cold weather(where the ball isnt traveling as far even in mile high) and to drop it right there? Not many QBs are making that throw.

Now, if the temp was normal and its a reg season game, most NFL QBs could make that throw.

But that was obviously not a normal game condition.

I can tell you this...the other QB on the field couldn't have made that throw.

EDIT: The throw was about 65 yards in the air.

No, it was about 54 yards, 25/26 to 21/20

And to drop it right where? Where the safety should have picked it or at the very least deflected it?

I don't know how much the cold vs the altitude affects the distance of throwing the ball, but I'll be glad to use some of the massive Message Board Wars budget to go to Denver to find out. I agree that Peyton would not have made that throw, although maybe he gets it to him sooner, which may not have resulted in a TD.

[You Play to Win the Game]

No, it was about 54 yards, 25/26 to 21/20

And to drop it right where? Where the safety should have picked it or at the very least deflected it?

I don't know how much the cold vs the altitude affects the distance of throwing the ball, but I'll be glad to use some of the massive Message Board Wars budget to go to Denver to find out. I agree that Peyton would not have made that throw, although maybe he gets it to him sooner, which may not have resulted in a TD.

Maybe you guys should save this for MBW, not a bad idea.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Flacco leads the league in XFIPVORPRapx3.

So he wins. Everything.

Case.Closed.

[mweb08]

You're the guy patronizing Ravens fans: saying you're flabbergasted by our reaction, and apologizing for raining on our parade, etc. That's garbage and you had no reason to go there. If that were Matt Ryan making that play in the exact situation, I would have thought it was a great play.

Yet again, you completely refuse to discuss the circumstances and environment. You pick and choose the points you counter, and ignore a key part of it, IMO.

But yes, I am moving on, because you're wrong and there's no convincing you of that, so there's really no point.

I'm not patronizing anyone. I'm just stating an unpopular opinion and being told I'm wrong and I'm ignoring points and refusing to discuss things that I've already ackowledged.

And talk about unproductive with your last line there. Of course I think the same thing about you.

[Pedro Cerrano]

"I find your tone bizarrely aggressive, and I'm not having any fun." - SrMeowMeow

[mweb08]

Maybe you guys should save this for MBW, not a bad idea.

But by then I'll be calmed down so that won't be any fun.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'm not patronizing anyone. I'm just stating an unpopular opinion and being told I'm wrong and I'm ignoring points and refusing to discuss things that I've already ackowledged.

And talk about unproductive with your last line there. Of course I think the same thing about you.

Don't even try it. When you say that you're stunned and flabbergasted about Ravens fans responses and apologizing for raining on Ravens fans parade, you're implying that Ravens fans who think that's a great play only do because they're Ravens fans. Yet, I've been very critical of Flacco at times. I consider myself open minded and willing to see both sides. I've even conceded that he could have made a better throw there.

So don't tell me that my take is Flabbergasting. That's insulting. That I haven't built up enough good will with you at this point to trust that i'm not letting the fact that I'm a Ravens fan get in the way of my opinion is what's flabbergasting.

[Pedro Cerrano]

That's the move.

Take veiled shots at people and then deny it.

Ok, I'll move along, I'm too ambivalent about Flacco to be posting here anyway. After the first Denver game I was ready to move on.

[mweb08]

Don't even try it. When you say that you're stunned and flabbergasted about Ravens fans responses and apologizing for raining on Ravens fans parade, you're implying that Ravens fans who think that's a great play only do because they're Ravens fans. Yet, I've been very critical of Flacco at times. I consider myself open minded and willing to see both sides. I've even conceded that he could have made a better throw there.

So don't tell me that my take is Flabbergasting. That's insulting. That I haven't built up enough good will with you at this point to trust that I'm using good judgement, and not purple shaded goggles is what's flabbergasting.

It is flabbergasting to me. That means that I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around how people can be seeing this play so differently than I am. That's not insulting. I'm also not saying anything only because you're a Ravens fan; although, I doubt I would have been met with such resistance if this was a Chargers board. I do believe you when you say you'd call it a great play if someone else did it. I'm sorry if I've offended you as that was not my intention.

[You Play to Win the Game]

It is flabbergasting to me. That means that I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around how people can be seeing this play so differently than I am. That's not insulting. I'm also not saying anything only because you're a Ravens fan; although, I doubt I would have been met with such resistance if this was a Chargers board. I do believe you when you say you'd call it a great play if someone else did it. I'm sorry if I've offended you as that was not my intention.

I mean you didn't offend me, but I felt a little defensive about it.

I really think that a majority of people polled nationally would feel that was a great play. That doesn't mean I'm right, or you're wrong, just that a lot of people would choose to view it as a great play.

Anyway, you're an opinionated guy, and those opinions are never without merit. I just disagree here, and am fine with agreeing to disagree for now.

BTW, this has thread has to set a record for using the word "Flabbergasted" (or flabbergasting) the most times.

[SammyBirdland]

Yes, he was very clutch in jedi mind tricking the safety into making a horrible mental error and then a horrible play on the ball.

He may not have caused it, but he exploited it.

Eli Manning won a Super Bowl because David Tyree caught a pass by squeezing it with one hand against his helmet. Now Eli Manning is ranked above Drew Brees in some of the rankings in this very thread.