85 replies to this topic

[RichardZ]

Sure, i could be wrong. They could come out and play well and guys like Bundy could come up and be huge impact guys from the get go, which just makes us stronger...and, if we are in, by not trading guys now, we could make some moves in July to make us even stronger.

Its possible...just not likely IMO.

BTW, if they want to keep the together and try and contend again...great. But add more talent to it.
Any other offseason in the last 15 years, people would really be pissed about the inactivity. But a relatively flukish(at least for 4 months or so of the season) playoff season and a lot of people are ignoring it.

First off, thanks for the aknowledgement that there could be another way than yours.

Second, most of your ideas for adding talent are rooted in trades. Most seem reasaonble to me. BUT, each trade involves giving something to get something. Even trades that look good (Glen Davis) can backfire. You have to give talent to get talent and there is never a sure thing that you are getting back more talent than you are giving up. Justin Upton could be the .770 version and be a headache. I'm just saying that trades aren't always slam dunks. We could trade Schoop and he could be a bench player or he could turn into a power hitting 2B and an allstar. There are two sides to every coin.

Again, DD hasn't done nothing. He resigned McLouth. Will probably resign Saunders and/or trade for a bat like Morse. Made lot's of little moves like Valencia, Ishikawa, Casilla, etc. No big moves, sure.

[SportsGuy]

First off, thanks for the aknowledgement that there could be another way than yours.

Second, most of your ideas for adding talent are rooted in trades. Most seem reasaonble to me. BUT, each trade involves giving something to get something. Even trades that look good (Glen Davis) can backfire. You have to give talent to get talent and there is never a sure thing that you are getting back more talent than you are giving up. Justin Upton could be the .770 version and be a headache. I'm just saying that trades aren't always slam dunks. We could trade Schoop and he could be a bench player or he could turn into a power hitting 2B and an allstar. There are two sides to every coin.

Again, DD hasn't done nothing. He resigned McLouth. Will probably resign Saunders and/or trade for a bat like Morse. Made lot's of little moves like Valencia, Ishikawa, Casilla, etc. No big moves, sure.

Those are nothing moves.

Maybe McLouth will be a good move but the other guys they have added are nothing...although I do like the defensive upside of Casilla.

As for signing Saunders...that makes the offseason even worse.

And of course trades can backfire..no one has ever said different. We can sit here all day and play that game but what good does it do us?

The bottom line is...everyone in the division is stronger with the possible exception of Tampa(and they are still really good) and we have stayed in place. In fact, a lot of the AL is stronger and we aren't.

We haven't upgraded the talent in this team or throughout the organization and right now, at least to me, it appears the Orioles are expecting a lot from Bundy and Gausman in 2013....I am glad they are both in their plans for this year but improve the talent around them, either for now or for the long term.

[Mackus]

You have to give talent to get talent and there is never a sure thing that you are getting back more talent than you are giving up.

I certainly agree with your overall point, but I'll add the caveat to this one part that salary is an equalizer. You can clearly get back the more talented piece if they are coming with a bloated salary.

Recent examples are the Hardy and Reynolds trades. Hardy was acquired for next to nothing, being expensive and coming of a poor offensive season (like this year). Reynolds was grabbed for a middle reliever with back-end potential (I won't say Hernandez was nothing, as I was a huge fan of his, but he still was only, at best, a setup guy under long-term club control).

[JeremyStrain]

Those are nothing moves.

Maybe McLouth will be a good move but the other guys they have added are nothing...although I do like the defensive upside of Casilla.

As for signing Saunders...that makes the offseason even worse.

And of course trades can backfire..no one has ever said different. We can sit here all day and play that game but what good does it do us?

The bottom line is...everyone in the division is stronger with the possible exception of Tampa(and they are still really good) and we have stayed in place. In fact, a lot of the AL is stronger and we aren't.

We haven't upgraded the talent in this team or throughout the organization and right now, at least to me, it appears the Orioles are expecting a lot from Bundy and Gausman in 2013....I am glad they are both in their plans for this year but improve the talent around them, either for now or for the long term.

Don't try to "keep up with the Joneses" that is how teams make bad and panicky moves. Everyone raves about TOR's moves but there is still a decent chance those trades backfire too. It's not about who looks the best on paper, more often than not that team you think will win based on the offseason moves doesn't win, hence why there aren't 1000 millionaires from sports betting.

Focus on drafting well and keeping the pipeline flowing so that once you have enough depth you can afford to make a trade or two, we aren't that deep yet.

Paying market value for guys in FA isn't the best investment either if you are trying to stick to a payroll budget. $14m for Swisher? That's going to cut into money for retaining players you really want in 2-3 years. Pay money for younger guys on that first multi-year deal, like Hammel maybe, don't pay for them on their 2nd or 3rd contract and pay inflated prices. Every deal they sign inflates their $$ value more since they all want to sign for more than they are worth AND won't sign for less than their previous deals.

[SportsGuy]

Don't try to "keep up with the Joneses" that is how teams make bad and panicky moves. Everyone raves about TOR's moves but there is still a decent chance those trades backfire too. It's not about who looks the best on paper, more often than not that team you think will win based on the offseason moves doesn't win, hence why there aren't 1000 millionaires from sports betting.

Focus on drafting well and keeping the pipeline flowing so that once you have enough depth you can afford to make a trade or two, we aren't that deep yet.

Paying market value for guys in FA isn't the best investment either if you are trying to stick to a payroll budget. $14m for Swisher? That's going to cut into money for retaining players you really want in 2-3 years. Pay money for younger guys on that first multi-year deal, like Hammel maybe, don't pay for them on their 2nd or 3rd contract and pay inflated prices. Every deal they sign inflates their $$ value more since they all want to sign for more than they are worth AND won't sign for less than their previous deals.

Come on...you can improve the team, keep drafting and developing well and not be dumb all at the same time. These are just bs excuses and I just don't get why Orioles fans continue to accept them.

And fine, extend hammel, wieters, etc...They aren't doing that either!!

They aren't doing anything but adding role players...AT BEST!

[clapdiddy]

Come on...you can improve the team, keep drafting and developing well and not be dumb all at the same time. These are just bs excuses and I just don't get why Orioles fans continue to accept them.

And fine, extend hammel, wieters, etc...They aren't doing that either!!

They aren't doing anything but adding role players...AT BEST!

I think there can be a happy medium to this.

I am all for locking up the core of our team, namely Jones (done), Machado, Wieters, and hopefully Bundy and Gausman.

IF you can't lock up someone, like a Wieters, to a long-term deal, you need to look into moving that player(s) for prospects. With the new Basic Agreement, letting these guys leave via free agency isn't as appealing. Dealing guys who we can't lock up or guys who may be at their peak values (See: Messrs Johnson and Hardy) would be prudent to keeping the flow of youngsters coming from the minors.

[sykOville]

$14m for Swisher? That's going to cut into money for retaining players you really want in 2-3 years.

I really, really would hope that $14m paid to a player would not affect money for retaining players. Its not an albatross of a contract by any stretch of the imagination.

[dpsmith22]

Come on...you can improve the team, keep drafting and developing well and not be dumb all at the same time. These are just bs excuses and I just don't get why Orioles fans continue to accept them.

And fine, extend hammel, wieters, etc...They aren't doing that either!!

They aren't doing anything but adding role players...AT BEST!

Truer words were not spoken on this board. IF the FO thinks this team is good enough to compete, but doesn't add talent, that would be about most blatant mistake a FO could make. They don't think we are ready to compete.

You guys do realize that our DH combo is Betemit/Valencia. I guess with those 2 bombers, it's ok to not add. Please don't tell me Reimold either. Reimold 1) will get hurt 2) if he's the DH that means your playing Mclouth every day and that's as scary a proposition as counting on Reimold for more than 60 games.

The O's are short offensively, in many area's. Specifically, but not strictly, OBP.

Injuries killed us last year. I truely believe we beat NY with Markakis in the lineup. However, I am not stupid enough to believe that next year there won't be another major injury that could cost us, AGAIN.

[JeremyStrain]

I really, really would hope that $14m paid to a player would not affect money for retaining players. Its not an albatross of a contract by any stretch of the imagination.

If you start spending money like that on players that aren't all-star level guys, you are taking away from the pot you will need later. Fans generally look at the right now and THIS season implications of money, they don't like to look a season, two or three down the road. It's just a byproduct of the scouting/minors side I focus on that I think that way. You want an overpriced FA?

There is a finite amount of money based on their budget, and $14m is almost 20% of your entire budget for one player, if you are going to spend on a player like that it better be for a real impact player, not just a Swisher.

[SportsGuy]

If you start spending money like that on players that aren't all-star level guys, you are taking away from the pot you will need later. Fans generally look at the right now and THIS season implications of money, they don't like to look a season, two or three down the road. It's just a byproduct of the scouting/minors side I focus on that I think that way. You want an overpriced FA?

There is a finite amount of money based on their budget, and $14m is almost 20% of your entire budget for one player, if you are going to spend on a player like that it better be for a real impact player, not just a Swisher.

Yea, i agree with this although spending 14M on a 4ish WAR player is a much better way of spending money than a lot of what the team has done over the years.

[JeremyStrain]

Yea, i agree with this although spending 14M on a 4ish WAR player is a much better way of spending money than a lot of what the team has done over the years.

Won't argue there, the spending $3m on RP and platoon DH players is about as dumb as it comes.

But signing a bunch of depth guys for just in case in the minors for minimum investment is a good play, and tapping IFA markets is a great play. Things have been better in the one year we've seen. I just think we should give them this year, and wait until they fall on their face before we get mad and give them the I told you sos. I see a chance that it actually COULD work, and save money that we will be REALLY glad to have next year. If it doesn't work, have at them, but I think you should give them a couple months at least.

[SportsGuy]

.

But signing a bunch of depth guys for just in case in the minors for minimum investment is a good play, and tapping IFA markets is a great play.

No arguments there but they can't be your best moves.

Things have been better in the one year we've seen. I just think we should give them this year, and wait until they fall on their face before we get mad and give them the I told you sos

The performance of the team only means so much though. They aren't picking a direction with the 2013 team. They aren't helping themselves long term and they aren't helping themselves now. You should always look to improve your organization, no matter how good or bad you are and the Orioles have NOT done that this offseason..at leats not yet.

I see a chance that it actually COULD work, and save money that we will be REALLY glad to have next year.

Every year, people say, save the money for next year. What are you saving the money for? Who is available next year that you want?

[JeremyStrain]

.

No arguments there but they can't be your best moves. The performance of the team only means so much though. They aren't picking a direction with the 2013 team. They aren't helping themselves long term and they aren't helping themselves now. You should always look to improve your organization, no matter how good or bad you are and the Orioles have NOT done that this offseason..at leats not yet.Every year, people say, save the money for next year. What are you saving the money for? Who is available next year that you want?

Your own guys. Wieters, Hammel, a new LF if those 2 don't work out, a 1B if Davis falls apart? Flexibility is the key.

Not signing the wrong contracts is just as important as signing the right ones.

[SportsGuy]

Your own guys. Wieters, Hammel, a new LF if those 2 don't work out, a 1B if Davis falls apart? Flexibility is the key.

Not signing the wrong contracts is just as important as signing the right ones.

You can sign those contracts and do other things.

We have guys coming off the books over the next few years that take up big chunks of the payroll and if they put a good product on the field and kept winning, the payroll could increase and we could spend more and more money.

So again, none of these excuses are valid IMO. Sitting on your hands is never smart.

[JeremyStrain]

You can sign those contracts and do other things.

We have guys coming off the books over the next few years that take up big chunks of the payroll and if they put a good product on the field and kept winning, the payroll could increase and we could spend more and more money.

So again, none of these excuses are valid IMO. Sitting on your hands is never smart.

Yes it is. Taking on bad contracts for future years is more detrimental than not doing anything and letting young talent play. It's not like they are running Luis Hernandez out there.

Not excuses, alternate strategy. Excuses would imply that something is wrong, it's not wrong, it's just different.

[SportsGuy]

Yes it is. Taking on bad contracts for future years is more detrimental than not doing anything and letting young talent play. It's not like they are running Luis Hernandez out there.

Not excuses, alternate strategy. Excuses would imply that something is wrong, it's not wrong, it's just different.

No..excuses meaning, let them just wait, let's see what they can do with the money later, etc...

We hear this EVERY OFFSEASON. NOTHING changes.

And I am not talking about taking on bad contracts. Hell, trade off some of this team and realize you aren't going to likely contend in 2013..obtain MORE financial flexibility for the long term.

But pick a direction....don't stand still.

[sykOville]

If you start spending money like that on players that aren't all-star level guys, you are taking away from the pot you will need later. Fans generally look at the right now and THIS season implications of money, they don't like to look a season, two or three down the road. It's just a byproduct of the scouting/minors side I focus on that I think that way. You want an overpriced FA?

There is a finite amount of money based on their budget, and $14m is almost 20% of your entire budget for one player, if you are going to spend on a player like that it better be for a real impact player, not just a Swisher.

Eh, All-Star is kinda hokey....Swisher consistently puts up an OPS of .800+, I'll take that any day. We are spending that on Markakis right now, is he considered an impact player?

One big contract shouldnt cripple a team, Zito/ Werth as good examples. In todays world $14m should not be considered a large contract in my opinion.

Regardless, SG is correct and I have said it as well, pick a direction and go with it....we are currently in the middle trying to do both things and selling ourselves short.

[JeremyStrain]

Eh, All-Star is kinda hokey....Swisher consistently puts up an OPS of .800+, I'll take that any day. We are spending that on Markakis right now, is he considered an impact player?

One big contract shouldnt cripple a team, Zito/ Werth as good examples. In todays world $14m should not be considered a large contract in my opinion.

Regardless, SG is correct and I have said it as well, pick a direction and go with it....we are currently in the middle trying to do both things and selling ourselves short.

Kinda hokey, really?

[sykOville]

Kinda hokey, really?

Ha, well yes....I mean it is a popularity contest right?

[JeremyStrain]

Ha, well yes....I mean it is a popularity contest right?

Well a) it's pretty offensive, and b) you really have no clue who I am or how much I know huh? So it's kinda dumb to make a projection about me in general because I'm not "oh god the sky is falling" about them not signing every FA on the market.