85 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

http://www.baltimore... ... 608.column

"I understand that argument," Duquette said when I reached him Wednesday. "But I'll tell you right now, our best players are going to come up through the farm system."

"The core of our ballclub, which is improved more than any other big league team, is returning," he said. " [Matt] Wieters, [J.J.] Hardy and [Adam] Jones won Gold Gloves. After we brought up [Manny] Machado and McLouth, only one team won more ballgames than the Orioles the rest of the way."

News flash DD...Hardy, Jones and McLouth didn't come up through our system.

[BSLChrisStoner]

News flash DD...Hardy, Jones and McLouth didn't come up through our system.

Whats the news flash though? He didn't imply they came up through the system. He simply said the core of the team is returning, and that going forward - O's fans can expect the best players the O's will be be grown internally. Which gives another indication of how they (O's ownership, and the Front Office) feels about Free Agency.

[SportsGuy]

Whats the news flash though? He didn't imply they came up through the system. He simply said the core of the team is returning, and that going forward - O's fans can expect the best players the O's will be be grown internally. Which gives another indication of how they (O's ownership, and the Front Office) feels about Free Agency.

The news flash is you can't rely on your system to produce your(entire) core and your team.

He has to make outside moves and they need to be more significant than indy players and middling, at best, FAs.

And since they don't want to rely on FA(which is fine) and they want to build through the system, you have to bring in real talent to that system and, outside of waiting several years for Intl FA and draft picks to pan out, they need to get that talent in here by trading some of the pieces they have.

Standing pat is easily the dumbest thing they could do this offseason, that is realistic.(ie, they arent trading Bundy or Manny for borderline players or something dumb like that)

[BSLChrisStoner]

The news flash is you can't rely on your system to produce your(entire) core and your team.

He has to make outside moves and they need to be more significant than indy players and middling, at best, FAs.

And since they don't want to rely on FA(which is fine) and they want to build through the system, you have to bring in real talent to that system and, outside of waiting several years for Intl FA and draft picks to pan out, they need to get that talent in here by trading some of the pieces they have.

Standing pat is easily the dumbest thing they could do this offseason, that is realistic.(ie, they arent trading Bundy or Manny for borderline players or something dumb like that)

Do you think he is unaware of that, when he gives a generic response as to why they haven't been active in remaking their roster this Winter?

[SportsGuy]

Do you think he is unaware of that, when he gives a generic response as to why they haven't been active in remaking their roster this Winter?

DD hasn't been here long enough for me to know what he is aware and unaware of.

He has made some very good moves...he has also made some very puzzling moves and has said many dumb things.

I know Orioles fans see the lucky 93 win team and just say, in DD we trust but much like the talent and roster on this team, i think many are overrating Duquette.

Now, he still has a month or so to get things done and hopefully he makes a lot of changes but if he goes to ST with basically the same team, he has failed miserably this offseason.

[dpsmith22]

I couldn't agree more with Cowherd.

[JeremyStrain]

DD hasn't been here long enough for me to know what he is aware and unaware of.

He has made some very good moves...he has also made some very puzzling moves and has said many dumb things.

I know Orioles fans see the lucky 93 win team and just say, in DD we trust but much like the talent and roster on this team, i think many are overrating Duquette.

Now, he still has a month or so to get things done and hopefully he makes a lot of changes but if he goes to ST with basically the same team, he has failed miserably this offseason.

It's only lucky because it's only happened once so far. You have to give them a chance to prove they can do it again before you start calling it luck.

How do you KNOW that the BP wasn't that good because ALL of Buck's BPs are good, and this one has some good pieces? How do you KNOW that JJ can't/won't save 50 again this year...when is the last time you saw a dominant ground ball closer? How do you know that McLouth's normal isn't the healthy years and not the injury filled years? How do you know the offense won't thrive with a healthy Markakis and Manny all season?

There are JUST as many reasons to say they could pick up where they left off as there are to say that it was a one year fluke. You can say a team can't do something or was lucky in hindsight, but you can't say it before a season happens. When people try to predict outcomes for teams they are wrong much more than they are right.

[BSLChrisStoner]

DD hasn't been here long enough for me to know what he is aware and unaware of.
He has made some very good moves...he has also made some very puzzling moves and has said many dumb things.

I know Orioles fans see the lucky 93 win team and just say, in DD we trust but much like the talent and roster on this team, i think many are overrating Duquette.

Now, he still has a month or so to get things done and hopefully he makes a lot of changes but if he goes to ST with basically the same team, he has failed miserably this offseason.

It's fine to call out Duquette for things you disagree with philosophy wise, or to 2nd guess moves, etc. Like you alluded to, there have been plenty of things to question already.

I don't think his comment here was anything though.

As far as what Duquette is, and is not, aware of... I think he is used to being the smartest guy in the room. I think you (rhetorically you) might disagree with his decisions, but I do believe Duquette will always have defensible rationale for the moves he makes. To me, that hasn't always been (often, rarely was) the case for the O's leadership during the Thrift through MacPhail years.

[sykOville]

If he is referring to Gausman and Bundy I agree with him (if they do indeed develop as hoped), but where is our second basemen? Where is our LFer? 3b? What happens if Wieters decides to walk when he can?

It seems our window to compete is now, yet we are not acting accordingly. We are once again half stepping, one foot in the future and one foot in the now. I think we need to pick a direction and go for it, if we are going to build for the future around Bundy/ Gausman/ Machado then we need to trade guys like Hardy and Jim Johnson to obtain future pieces. If we are going to go for it now, then we need to be more active in free agency and moving guys like our old "cavalry". This middle ground isnt going to work long term, despite having a great year last year.

[SportsGuy]

I couldn't agree more with Cowherd.

Which is scary because he has no business writing about sports...he is pretty terrible but his general point here is correct.

[SportsGuy]

It's only lucky because it's only happened once so far. You have to give them a chance to prove they can do it again before you start calling it luck.

How do you KNOW that the BP wasn't that good because ALL of Buck's BPs are good, and this one has some good pieces? How do you KNOW that JJ can't/won't save 50 again this year...when is the last time you saw a dominant ground ball closer? How do you know that McLouth's normal isn't the healthy years and not the injury filled years? How do you know the offense won't thrive with a healthy Markakis and Manny all season?

There are JUST as many reasons to say they could pick up where they left off as there are to say that it was a one year fluke. You can say a team can't do something or was lucky in hindsight, but you can't say it before a season happens. When people try to predict outcomes for teams they are wrong much more than they are right.

No, its pretty easy to call many of the things that happened last year lucky. When things are very rare and basically never happen in the history of the game, luck is involved.

Now, the degree of luck is what isn't known at this time.

[JeremyStrain]

If he is referring to Gausman and Bundy I agree with him (if they do indeed develop as hoped), but where is our second basemen? Where is our LFer? 3b? What happens if Wieters decides to walk when he can?

It seems our window to compete is now, yet we are not acting accordingly. We are once again half stepping, one foot in the future and one foot in the now. I think we need to pick a direction and go for it, if we are going to build for the future around Bundy/ Gausman/ Machado then we need to trade guys like Hardy and Jim Johnson to obtain future pieces. If we are going to go for it now, then we need to be more active in free agency and moving guys like our old "cavalry". This middle ground isnt going to work long term, despite having a great year last year.

He's talking about Bundy and Gausman and that we aren't going to go out and trade for an impact player, we are going to get a lot of impact from these guys.

[BSLChrisStoner]

He's talking about Bundy and Gausman and that we aren't going to go out and trade for an impact player, we are going to get a lot of impact from these guys.

I think he is talking about those two, but also beyond these two and 2013. He's stating again (he's stated it numerous times, starting with the day he was hired), that his Front Office will be more more about drafting and development, vs. obtaining talent via Free Agency.

Rob's point about having to also be active in the trade market is valid though.

[sykOville]

He's talking about Bundy and Gausman and that we aren't going to go out and trade for an impact player, we are going to get a lot of impact from these guys.

Which is fine, if they develop properly they should be impact players....I guess my point is you need more than just 2-3 impact players to have a successful team. I would say they are 2-3 years away from being impact guys, what pieces are going to be around them at that time to help us win?

[dpsmith22]

I take from his column that he is saying that we cannot repeat the 1 run and extra inning win percentage. In which, he is, IMO, correct. We need to add a few pieces and all we have heard is that DD is over-valuing his players and only wants to trade 1 of the 14 possible 5 starters we have.

This doesn't sound like a deal is going to occur.

[RichardZ]

Bottom line is that this organization, like most, needs to rely on their farm system to produce quality and star ML players, whether to keep those players or to trade them. Nothing wrong with trading but you have to give something to get something. Expecting to always come out on top on trades isn't exactly an exact science either. For every Adam Jones, there is a failed prospect as well. There are tons of ways to put a winner together but a strong farm system is the foundation for every team. We can't evaluate DD yet but saying he's failed miserable this offseason is just hyperbole. There is reason to keep the team together that finished last season. Predicting it won't be as good isn't exactly going out on a limb. 93 games would be tough for any team to duplicate. I have no problem if SportsGuy thinks this team isn't very good or just a .500 team. Just leave open the possibility that you might be wrong.

[sykOville]

Bottom line is that this organization, like most, needs to rely on their farm system to produce quality and star ML players, whether to keep those players or to trade them. Nothing wrong with trading but you have to give something to get something. Expecting to always come out on top on trades isn't exactly an exact science either. For every Adam Jones, there is a failed prospect as well. There are tons of ways to put a winner together but a strong farm system is the foundation for every team. We can't evaluate DD yet but saying he's failed miserable this offseason is just hyperbole. There is reason to keep the team together that finished last season. Predicting it won't be as good isn't exactly going out on a limb. 93 games would be tough for any team to duplicate. I have no problem if SportsGuy thinks this team isn't very good or just a .500 team. Just leave open the possibility that you might be wrong.

I think whats disappointing for me is I feel we didnt really improve upon the team from last year, I would have loved Josh Hamilton but I understand the argument against him, but there were players out there that could have helped us improve, someone like a Nick Swisher.

If you look at the Nats or Tigers, teams that are definitely playoff caliber teams, they found ways to add pieces that they think will help them improve. Even if you disagree and think Torii Hunter was a bad signing, they identified a need and went out and grabbed him. Same with the Nats, they could have easily sat on their butts knowing they had the best record in baseball last year but they want to win, so they trade for Span and grab Haren.

I just wish we were more aggressive.

[SportsGuy]

Bottom line is that this organization, like most, needs to rely on their farm system to produce quality and star ML players, whether to keep those players or to trade them. Nothing wrong with trading but you have to give something to get something. Expecting to always come out on top on trades isn't exactly an exact science either. For every Adam Jones, there is a failed prospect as well. There are tons of ways to put a winner together but a strong farm system is the foundation for every team. We can't evaluate DD yet but saying he's failed miserable this offseason is just hyperbole. There is reason to keep the team together that finished last season. Predicting it won't be as good isn't exactly going out on a limb. 93 games would be tough for any team to duplicate. I have no problem if SportsGuy thinks this team isn't very good or just a .500 team. Just leave open the possibility that you might be wrong.

Sure, i could be wrong. They could come out and play well and guys like Bundy could come up and be huge impact guys from the get go, which just makes us stronger...and, if we are in, by not trading guys now, we could make some moves in July to make us even stronger.

Its possible...just not likely IMO.

BTW, if they want to keep the together and try and contend again...great. But add more talent to it.

Any other offseason in the last 15 years, people would really be pissed about the inactivity. But a relatively flukish(at least for 4 months or so of the season) playoff season and a lot of people are ignoring it.

[RichardZ]

Sometimes doing nothing is the right thing. Again, let's consider that the payroll had to remain pretty much the same. I think you have to go with that assumption unless there is reason to believe otherwise.

I'm waiting to see what happends with Saunders and Morse, or another bad, before reaching a final opinion but I think changes for changes sake aren't the answer either. I wouldn't pay Swisher 14M per year to see how much better or the same he is over a McLouth/Reimold platoon. DD is being creative, which is what we need. People didn't think much of the Miguel Gonzalez move or the McLouth move at the time. I think we'll get a nice suprise from among Casilla, Navarro, Valencia, Ishikawa, etc. The biggest questions are what we get from McLouth, Reimold, Chris Davis, the rotation, etc. There is reason to believe in each individual but there is reason to question the group. I think guessing which individuals should be replaced is a crapshoot.

[SportsGuy]

Sometimes doing nothing is the right thing. Again, let's consider that the payroll had to remain pretty much the same. I think you have to go with that assumption unless there is reason to believe otherwise.

I'm waiting to see what happends with Saunders and Morse, or another bad, before reaching a final opinion but I think changes for changes sake aren't the answer either. I wouldn't pay Swisher 14M per year to see how much better or the same he is over a McLouth/Reimold platoon. DD is being creative, which is what we need. People didn't think much of the Miguel Gonzalez move or the McLouth move at the time. I think we'll get a nice suprise from among Casilla, Navarro, Valencia, Ishikawa, etc. The biggest questions are what we get from McLouth, Reimold, Chris Davis, the rotation, etc. There is reason to believe in each individual but there is reason to question the group. I think guessing which individuals should be replaced is a crapshoot.

I can't think of anytime that this is the case.

Sure, there may be trades where not making them is the smart move or things like that. But, generally speaking, over the course of an entire offseason, doing nothing is never smart.

I am not sure I agree that DD is being creative, at least not in the ways I feel he should be...what I will say about DD is that I like the fact that he is looking everywhere he can to find talent. I respect that and appreciate the fact that he isn't leaving any stone unturned.