69 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

Orioles.com: Orioles 'in on everybody' in pursuit of rotation ace

[1970]

He has been quoted as saying this multiple times by multiple outlets.  If that’s true, then…

 

- Tell us how much you offered Snell,

- Tell us how much you offered Fried,

- Tell us how much you offered for Crochet,

- Tell us how much you offered for Burnes after he signs with Toronto

- Tell us how much you offered for Cease after someone else makes a better offer

 

Until he tells us any of the above I will believe he didn’t make much of an effort to acquire any of those “aces.”

 

Rubinstein and Elias, Snake Oil Salesmen (until proven otherwise)

[BSLChrisStoner]

Rubinstein and Elias, Snake Oil Salesmen (until proven otherwise)

 

I don't think they are snake oil salesman.... but being in on guys doesn't mean anything. 

 

You either landed them or you didn't. 

 

And it might be prudent to not pay the price in $ or player capital for x player....  but it's on Elias to figure out how to add the front-end starter the roster clearly needs. (Or at the minimum, improve the rotation depth.)

[makoman]

He has been quoted as saying this multiple times by multiple outlets. If that’s true, then…

- Tell us how much you offered Snell,
- Tell us how much you offered Fried,
- Tell us how much you offered for Crochet,
- Tell us how much you offered for Burnes after he signs with Toronto
- Tell us how much you offered for Cease after someone else makes a better offer

Until he tells us any of the above I will believe he didn’t make much of an effort to acquire any of those “aces.”

Rubinstein and Elias, Snake Oil Salesmen (until proven otherwise)

He certainly should not tell us what players he offered for trades, that’s awkward, but I agree I’d love to hear what kind of money he’s offered FAs, just to let us know if they’re serious at all. Will never happen though.

[mdrunning]

Sounds like the players Boston traded for Crochet are a couple of years away from the majors, which makes sense from the White Sox perspective since they're not likely to contend for the next several years.

[Slidemaster]

So far this offseason feels remarkably similar to the Angelos offseasons.

[Mackus]

Sounds like the players Boston traded for Crochet are a couple of years away from the majors, which makes sense from the White Sox perspective since they're not likely to contend for the next several years.

Main guy reached AAA last year. 2nd guy fits that mold, was #12 pick in last year's draft out of Texas A&M but didn't debut professionally after the draft.

[mdrunning]

Main guy reached AAA last year. 2nd guy fits that mold, was #12 pick in last year's draft out of Texas A&M but didn't debut professionally after the draft.

Was that Teel, who I believe is a catcher and who the Red Sox touted as the next Carlton Fisk? Very fickle, those catching prospects. As we've found out around here, top catching prospects don't always work out according to plan.

[Mackus]

Was that Teel, who I believe is a catcher and who the Red Sox touted as the next Carlton Fisk? Very fickle, those catching prospects. As we've found out around here, top catching prospects don't always work out according to plan.

Yep, he'll likely debut in 2025 unless he struggles. He had a little more AAA time last year than Basallo

[Mackus]

Was that Teel, who I believe is a catcher and who the Red Sox touted as the next Carlton Fisk? Very fickle, those catching prospects. As we've found out around here, top catching prospects don't always work out according to plan.

3rd guy also was at AAA all year last year. 4th guy reached AA. So most of these guys are pretty close, furthest is the '24 college 1st rounder.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Other teams are making potential step improvement changes to their roster. The O's so far have not. Tired of hearing the "overpaid" "more than I'd go" type comments. IMO none of the signings so far are things that have mortgaged a teams future that badly. 

 

The market is what someone is willing to pay. You either play in that sandbox or piece together a roster with lesser pieces. Its all risk but the lesser piece model has lesser potential upside.

[Mackus]

Other teams are making potential step improvement changes to their roster. The O's so far have not. Tired of hearing the "overpaid" "more than I'd go" type comments. IMO none of the signings so far are things that have mortgaged a teams future that badly.

The market is what someone is willing to pay. You either play in that sandbox or piece together a roster with lesser pieces. Its all risk but the lesser piece model has lesser potential upside.

What they do matters. When they do it does not as long as it's in time for a normal ST for pitchers.

Options are dwindling but not gone. If they don't do anything major for the rotation, that will be worth being very upset over.

I just think it's premature to get upset now and to be resigned to them not doing anything. That could happen, maybe will happen, but not destined to happen.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

What they do matters. When they do it does not as long as it's in time for a normal ST for pitchers.

Options are dwindling but not gone. If they don't do anything major for the rotation, that will be worth being very upset over.

I just think it's premature to get upset now and to be resigned to them not doing anything. That could happen, maybe will happen, but not destined to happen.

Agree or disagree with this - There are less quality SP pieces available today than there were 2 weeks ago?

[BSLSteveBirrer]

What they do matters. When they do it does not as long as it's in time for a normal ST for pitchers.

Options are dwindling but not gone. If they don't do anything major for the rotation, that will be worth being very upset over.

I just think it's premature to get upset now and to be resigned to them not doing anything. That could happen, maybe will happen, but not destined to happen.

All correct. But then we could just shut down any conversation until ST if we wanted to take this approach in totality. I mean what else are we going to talk about?  LOL

[Mackus]

Agree or disagree with this - There are less quality SP pieces available today than there were 2 weeks ago?

 

Agree, but don't think the question is relevant.  They don't need to add 8 guys.  Just 1 or 2, and there are still more than 1 or 2 good options left.

[Mackus]

All correct. But then we could just shut down any conversation until ST if we wanted to take this approach in totality. I mean what else are we going to talk about?  LOL

 

Talk about what they could still do.  Or point out which specific deals you think they should've beaten. 

 

Only one I'd have considered is the Eovaldi deal.  He got way more than I'd have guessed, but still think it'd have been exciting to go to maybe 3/$81M for him as I like him a lot.  Snell maybe, but 5/$175M+ to beat LA for a guy who only goes 5 innings is tough to argue for.  Wouldn't have touched Fried for 8 years.  Wouldn't have come close to beating Boston's offer for Crochet.  Wouldn't have beaten Mets deal for Holmes and tried to convert him.  No interest in Severino.  No interest in Kikuchi.

 

Sasaki is a longshot but he's the absolute prize of the offseason if you can convince him.  I want Burnes.  I'd be ok with Flaherty.  Not interested in Manaea  or Pivetta.  Several trade candidates are intriguing but hard to say who is available.

[makoman]

While I agree that the roster doesn't matter until ST starts, I feel like we've done this every year--Guys, it's only December, they still have time, surely Kyle Gibson can't be our only addition! 

 

They are who they are until they show otherwise,* so I expect a #5 at best in FA. Maybe they will get someone better like Cease with a trade. But if we're going to spend prospects every year for pitching instead of money the system is going to have issues. 

 

*Maybe O'Neill is him starting to show otherwise, first multi year deal under Elias, but we'll see.

[BaltBird 24]

The O's didn't acquire Burnes until February 1st....

I won't give up hope just yet. Still plenty of options available through FA who would certainly upgrade the rotation. I want Burnes. I'd gladly take Flaherty, Pivetta, or Manaea. I'm sure there are trade options out there.

Just have to let the offseason play out.

[Mackus]

While I agree that the roster doesn't matter until ST starts, I feel like we've done this every year--Guys, it's only December, they still have time, surely Kyle Gibson can't be our only addition! 

 

They are who they are until they show otherwise,* so I expect a #5 at best in FA. Maybe they will get someone better like Cease with a trade. But if we're going to spend prospects every year for pitching instead of money the system is going to have issues. 

 

*Maybe O'Neill is him starting to show otherwise, first multi year deal under Elias, but we'll see.

 

Skepticism that they might not do anything of consequence doesn't bother me at all, that seems practical and reasoned.  I just really dislike the final grades that are coming in from some.  Especially without saying which deal they would've beaten.

 

I get the concern.  I don't get the panic.  Guess that can be a fine line, though.

[BaltBird 24]

Eovaldi is the only player off the market that I wanted. He's a Texas guy and chose to stay in Texas for $25M per. What do the O's have to do to beat that? $27M, $28M? I'm not sure he's worth that for 3 years entering his age 35 season.