180 replies to this topic

[CantonJester]

It's one thing for an argument to turn physical, but a gun being drawn on her to coerce her silence is really sketchy. She goes on to rationalize that he is too smart and has too much to lose, but why talk about having a gun pointed at you if you're trying to reason yourself out of talking to the police? 

 

Either she's a fool, or Flowers' brother might be brought in for questioning. 

 

At which point, it's anybody's guess what the Ravens do. They boast they're zero-tolerance, but yeah, like already mentioned, Flowers aint no backup kickoff return specialist. 

 

 

If only it were that easy.

Teachers have office hours, tutorials, and so many other things they do. If you've never done the job, this is basically an impossible thing to do entirely.

And on top of that, if a kid is lying, it doesn't matter if you were alone with them or not.

 

How is it this late in the 21st century there aren't video cameras in all offices and classrooms? 

[Slidemaster]

How is it this late in the 21st century there aren't video cameras in all offices and classrooms?

Those things cost money.

My team bought fake cameras to put in our classrooms just to make kids think twice about being foolish.

[BaltBird 24]

Sounds like teachers need body worn cameras!

[CantonJester]

Those things cost money.

My team bought fake cameras to put in our classrooms just to make kids think twice about being foolish.

 

I get it, but that sounds like a union thing. You pay into it, they should protect your interests while on the job. 

[Slidemaster]

I get it, but that sounds like a union thing. You pay into it, they should protect your interests while on the job.

Many states don't have unions. I live in Texas. Unionization is not allowed here.

[bmore_ken]

There is precedent in the NFL that charges do not have to be filed in order for a suspension from the NFL.  All you have to do is go back to the Ben Roethlisberger alleged attempted rape case in Georgia.  The supposed victim declined to press charges.  The Georgia prosecutor said he believed something happened, but without her they had no case.  No chargers were filed. The NFL suspended Roethlisberger for 6 games, reduced to 4.  I think everyone without blinders on assumes that Roethlisberger paid the victim to keep quiet.  

 

I would think this case deserves at least that.  The victim claimed she was bruised and was hesitant to provide information because the perpetrator was an NFL player.  She also claimed she was threatened to keep quiet at gun point.  She would not talk to detectives investigating the case and Flowers refused to talk to detectives as well.  The case can be reopened if something else comes up.

 

It's a sticky situation for the Ravens.  On one hand, you can take the side that no charges means nothing happened.  But there is a 911 call and a report filed out of state.  Something happened.  So if you have a zero tolerance for domestic abuse, like the Ravens claim they do, then do you dish out some discipline?  If not, then maybe you don't have a zero tolerance policy, only when it applies to charges filed.  But were charges filed against Ray Rice?  I'm not sure they were, although the video made it impossible to ignore.  And if you do nothing your zero tolerance policy seems like it may be driven by who it is rather than what happened.  If this were a third string part time kick returner does anyone believe he wouldn't be off the team after this?

IMO Rice is a different story because there was video evidence. His charges got dropped after he completed a program. In his case, we saw what happened. In this case only the three of them know what actually happened. 

[DuffMan]

Dont ever be alone with a kid in school. Seems like an easy solution

Didn't know Mike Pence was posting here...

[Ravens2006]

On the Roethlisberger situation, even that I said at the time the NFL is treading on thin ice with suspending a player for a situation that never resulted in any actual charges. I think it's only a matter of when and not if the league ends the practice of suspensions for off field events that result in no charges, especially if there's no audio / video leaked of the incident. A lawsuit will be enough to end that at some point, whether it's in 2024 or 2030 is all that remains to be seen I think.

Again, none of us was there, we have no idea of what really transpires in most of these incidents. Assuming is all we do... sometimes those assumptions are right, and sometimes they're not.

A lot of evidence came out and is still publicly available in the Kobe Bryant case. Where he was actually arrested and charged. You can read all that evidence and make your own mind up as to who is telling the truth, and inconsistencies or oddities come from both sides. But that guy is still hailed as a hero and any mention of the incident is strongly shot down and called anywhere from character assassination to racism. It's an odd world where we pick and choose who we like and who we believe, in inconsistent manners.

[Slidemaster]

On the Roethlisberger situation, even that I said at the time the NFL is treading on thin ice with suspending a player for a situation that never resulted in any actual charges. I think it's only a matter of when and not if the league ends the practice of suspensions for off field events that result in no charges, especially if there's no audio / video leaked of the incident. A lawsuit will be enough to end that at some point, whether it's in 2024 or 2030 is all that remains to be seen I think.

Again, none of us was there, we have no idea of what really transpires in most of these incidents. Assuming is all we do... sometimes those assumptions are right, and sometimes they're not.

A lot of evidence came out and is still publicly available in the Kobe Bryant case. Where he was actually arrested and charged. You can read all that evidence and make your own mind up as to who is telling the truth, and inconsistencies or oddities come from both sides. But that guy is still hailed as a hero and any mention of the incident is strongly shot down and called anywhere from character assassination to racism. It's an odd world where we pick and choose who we like and who we believe, in inconsistent manners.

Indeed. It's a tale as old as time in American sports.

[Biggsy]

Yeah, Zay beat her up, and when she was going to turn him in, his brother pulled a gun on her, threatened to kill her if she dropped Zay's name to the police. She goes silent and doesn't press charges.

Justice is done.

Oh... you know that for a fact? Were you condemning Brian Banks back in the day too for being a POS ?

If you want to believe that is 100% what happened, and Flowers is 100% guilty and this woman is being completely honest and forthcoming, that's your prerogative.

Too much indifference for me personally to form any strong opinion one way or the other. I believe something happened. The severity of what actually happened is definitely in question as far as I'm concerned. Definitely soured me on Flowers. But I refuse to just assume he's definitely guilty and a POS without knowing any actual details of what happened, in context. Or knowing any of the individuals involved at all.

[Mike in STL]

Oh... you know that for a fact? Were you condemning Brian Banks back in the day too for being a POS ?

If you want to believe that is 100% what happened, and Flowers is 100% guilty and this woman is being completely honest and forthcoming, that's your prerogative.

Too much indifference for me personally to form any strong opinion one way or the other. I believe something happened. The severity of what actually happened is definitely in question as far as I'm concerned. Definitely soured me on Flowers. But I refuse to just assume he's definitely guilty and a POS without knowing any actual details of what happened, in context. Or knowing any of the individuals involved at all.

No. Not 100% sure. But it looks like a rat and smells like a rat. 

 

Brian Banks. Never heard of him. 

 

Yes, I'm sour on Zay. 

[Mackus]

Oh... you know that for a fact? Were you condemning Brian Banks back in the day too for being a POS ?

If you want to believe that is 100% what happened, and Flowers is 100% guilty and this woman is being completely honest and forthcoming, that's your prerogative.

Too much indifference for me personally to form any strong opinion one way or the other. I believe something happened. The severity of what actually happened is definitely in question as far as I'm concerned. Definitely soured me on Flowers. But I refuse to just assume he's definitely guilty and a POS without knowing any actual details of what happened, in context. Or knowing any of the individuals involved at all.

I feel the same way, ultimately. Though I think it's too much to expect people being 100% certain about what happened in order to feel one way about Zay or him continuing as a Raven. I'm not confident enough about what happened to want hm cut, but my threshold for that would be well shy of 100% certainty.

[Biggsy]

No. Not 100% sure. But it looks like a rat and smells like a rat.

Brian Banks. Never heard of him.

Yes, I'm sour on Zay.

Not sure if you're being facetious or not. But Banks is a perfect example of why you shouldn't just blindly believe the perceived victim in any case. 16 year old top football recruit who had his future and youth ripped from him by a girl who made up a story that Banks locked her on a stair case and forcibly raped her. Because of the whole guilty until proven innocent crowd, he was perceived as guilty, and accepted a plea deal for 5 years vs facing life in prison. After getting released from prison, he met with his "victim" in the presence of a PI he hired, where she admitted on tape that she fabricated the whole story.

16 year old kid on his way to USC during the Carroll dynasty. Had his future taken from him. Sad story, and cautionary tale of why you shouldn't assume guilt.

[Slidemaster]

Not sure if you're being facetious or not. But Banks is a perfect example of why you shouldn't just blindly believe the perceived victim in any case. 16 year old top football recruit who had his future and youth ripped from him by a girl who made up a story that Banks locked her on a stair case and forcibly raped her. Because of the whole guilty until proven innocent crowd, he was perceived as guilty, and accepted a plea deal for 5 years vs facing life in prison. After getting released from prison, he met with his "victim" in the presence of a PI he hired, where she admitted on tape that she fabricated the whole story.

16 year old kid on his way to USC during the Carroll dynasty. Had his future taken from him. Sad story, and cautionary tale of why you shouldn't assume guilt.

When a crime elicits a strong emotional reaction, it's so easy to presume guilt as a way to protect and support the victim. But as we've all seen, those reactions can sometimes cloud logic and truth.

[CantonJester]

When a crime elicits a strong emotional reaction, it's so easy to presume guilt as a way to protect and support the victim. But as we've all seen, those reactions can sometimes cloud logic and truth.

 

Right. And she may have been (rightfully) frightened by a gun being pointed at her. 

 

America.

[bmore_ken]

I feel the same way, ultimately. Though I think it's too much to expect people being 100% certain about what happened in order to feel one way about Zay or him continuing as a Raven. I'm not confident enough about what happened to want hm cut, but my threshold for that would be well shy of 100% certainty.

Same here. I think some times sports fans forget that these are not just professional athletes, but actual people with actual people problems and situations. Maybe something happened, maybe she made it up because she was mad at him for something. Either way we'll likely never know which is true. What we do know is the police investigated and didn't find anything that warranted charges and her statements(that I've read) made no sense. As far as I'm concerned, end of story, let's get back to talk about the draft and free agency. 

[bmore_ken]

Right. And she may have been (rightfully) frightened by a gun being pointed at her. 

 

America.

Or she may not have been because it didn't happen. We don't know either way. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Shes not going forward with anything legally. So whats being gained by making something up. Nothing is happening to anyone. Sure as heck doesnt feel like BS. The most likely scenario is the threat worked, shes scared, she doesnt want her name out there, she doesnt want to read a message board where fans call her a liar and much worse. The bruises are likely already healed so you just move on as best as possible vs the hassle of trying to seek justice.

[CantonJester]

Or she may not have been because it didn't happen. We don't know either way. 

 

You’re free to bury your head in the sand. RAH! RAH!

 

Shes not going forward with anything legally. So whats being gained by making something up. Nothing is happening to anyone. Sure as heck doesnt feel like BS. The most likely scenario is the threat worked, shes scared, she doesnt want her name out there, she doesnt want to read a message board where fans call her a liar and much worse. The bruises are likely already healed so you just move on as best as possible vs the hassle of trying to seek justice.

 

My guess is once she got back to Massachusetts, calmer heads reasoned that somebody crazy enough to pull a gun on her (and as such, interrupting his gravy train?) was someone to fear should she have filed charges. 

 

Not a fan of domestic violence, but a third party bringing a gun into the conversation? GTFO with her refusal to talk with police. Get an indictment on the third party and compel her testimony. That’s ridiculous.

[Mike in STL]

Not sure if you're being facetious or not. But Banks is a perfect example of why you shouldn't just blindly believe the perceived victim in any case. 16 year old top football recruit who had his future and youth ripped from him by a girl who made up a story that Banks locked her on a stair case and forcibly raped her. Because of the whole guilty until proven innocent crowd, he was perceived as guilty, and accepted a plea deal for 5 years vs facing life in prison. After getting released from prison, he met with his "victim" in the presence of a PI he hired, where she admitted on tape that she fabricated the whole story.

16 year old kid on his way to USC during the Carroll dynasty. Had his future taken from him. Sad story, and cautionary tale of why you shouldn't assume guilt.

Yeah, sorry for never hearing about this 16-year-old kid from 23 years ago.

 

So he went to court, through the legal process, and took a plea deal, sat in jail for 5 years, when he didn't do anything? Public opinion does not apply in the legal process, or in the courtroom. Thats vastly different than this case with Zay where there is no legal proceeding that will take place, no charges, no statements, no witness testimony, no deposition, nothing. So people are left to their opinions. 

 

If you ask me, why did he not scream from the mountain top that he is completely innocent, and the story is a hoax? Why didn't he let a trial and evidence, or lack thereof, prove his innocence? Put witnesses on the stand that can vouch for his innocence, or validate his alibi? Was there a rape kit used to see if his DNA was on/in her? What were those results?

 

Why would anyone take a plea to go to jail for 5 years if they are 100% innocent? I understand innocent people get sent to jail too. But I'd take my chances that if I'm 100% innocent that the legal system will prove that much much much more often than not. Rather than take 5 years in jail and don't let any evidence surface.

 

I'd say the ratio of innocent vs. guilty getting life in prison is probably the same as victims who fabricate an entire story and victims who don't. Even still, innocent people in jail can appeal their case. New evidence surfaces.

 

If I ever was falsely accused of something this heinous, I'd be telling the world I didn't do it, as loud as I could, as fast as I could. Silence isn't an admission of guilt, but it doesn't help. Taking a plea is pretty much as close to an admission of guilt as you can get. Maybe getting her to say on tape she made it up was some tactic to clear his name. Maybe she was coerced into doing that? Something doesn't add up to being squeaky clean there either.