180 replies to this topic

[RichardZ]

So who are you disagreeing with here?

Someone who says “they absolutely need to do something”.

[mweb08]

Someone who says “they absolutely need to do something”.

Nope.

[mdrunning]

$19 million per. Too expensive. That would put our payroll over $90 million.

Largest free-agent contract the Astros have given out during Jim Crane's ownership tenure. 

 

No deferrals and a full no-trade. Plus, Hader can probably hit better than Jon Singleton.

[mdrunning]

Robert Stephenson is reportedly in agreement with the Angels on a three-year deal worth $30 million.

 

Well, if a longer offseason was his first priority, the Angels were a logical choice.

[RichardZ]

Robert Stephenson is reportedly in agreement with the Angels on a three-year deal worth $30 million.
 
Well, if a longer offseason was his first priority, the Angels were a logical choice.

I think 33 million guaranteed was his priority. More golf.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Someone who says “they absolutely need to do something”.

Do I think they absolutely need to do something ? Yes I do. They will probably never be in a better budget AND trade pieces position to make a significant improvement to the team that they are in now. To not do so is insanity.

 

But that is a different question than can they win the WS without doing something. Yes they can. The Oakland A's could win the WS.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Yes. It's about optimizing your chances, not just about being above the threshold of contenders.

Management doesn't prioritize winning in the present, is the bottom line. Not saying they don't care, but it's not the top or even a top priority. Ownership doesn't prioritize winning ever, that is painfully clear. Front office prioritizes larger picture, and I think it's a flaw of Elias that he doesn't have that "go for it" gene to be willing to pay full freight to enhance present odds at the expense of some potential future opportunities. It's pragmatic, but I think a different weighing of present value future would be more likely to get us a ring. Not all in on present no matter the cost, just closer to that side than Elias is.

Still time for Elias to do something to confound that perception, but thats who he's been to date.

I'm all for an extended run, that's why I wouldn't completely maximize present odds... but I agree with amplifying current chances.

If they wanted to add a front end starter... the options were free agency or trade.

I wasn't super high on Stroman but the dollars and years absolutely should have worked, and he would have been a solid 3rd starter, and you could have kept your prospects.

If you don't want to do that, then it's a trade. You have more player capital than anyone. Identify who you want, and get a deal done.


Or you dont now and you go into the year needing Means to be right, and Wells in the rotation. Wells has been very solid as a 1st half starter but has hit the wall. Have to think that would happen again, and you would be looking for a sp midyear. Would be nice to have Wells in the pen all year.

Feel like Cease will happen and he will help.
I like him better than Stroman.
I doubt I'll like his addition better than the would be Stroman deal after factoring in the player cost to get Cease.

[RichardZ]

Do I think they absolutely need to do something ? Yes I do. They will probably never be in a better budget AND trade pieces position to make a significant improvement to the team that they are in now. To not do so is insanity.
 
But that is a different question than can they win the WS without doing something. Yes they can. The Oakland A's could win the WS.

Now you’re being silly. The A’s have no realistic chance of getting into the playoffs.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Now you’re being silly. The A’s have no realistic chance of getting into the playoffs.

Ok sure I am. But 3 times in MLB history a team has won the WS going in at 50-1 or worse odds. 1987 and 1991 Twins and the 2003 Marlins. Shoot in 2016 Leicester City won the EPL. Their preseason odds? 5000-1. Its sports and things happen. Which is why sitting pat with all the resources the O's have is dumb.

[mdrunning]

Ok sure I am. But 3 times in MLB history a team has won the WS going in at 50-1 or worse odds. 1987 and 1991 Twins and the 2003 Marlins. Shoot in 2016 Leicester City won the EPL. Their preseason odds? 5000-1. Its sports and things happen. Which is why sitting pat with all the resources the O's have is dumb.

One possible reason I've seen posited elsewhere is that Elias has begun to realize that teams are reluctant to trade pitching for position prospects without getting pitching in return. It could explain why the Orioles made a more concerted effort to select pitching in last year's amateur draft.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I don’t remember being given the choice. What’s the payroll you’re working with?

Just stop.

[RichardZ]

Just stop.

Sure. When you can put together a complete sentence. Maybe.

[RichardZ]

One possible reason I've seen posited elsewhere is that Elias has begun to realize that teams are reluctant to trade pitching for position prospects without getting pitching in return. It could explain why the Orioles made a more concerted effort to select pitching in last year's amateur draft.

The Dodgers just traded 26 yo 1B Busch for 19 yo LHP prospect Jackson Ferris. Someone is doing it.

[dude]

One possible reason I've seen posited elsewhere is that Elias has begun to realize that teams are reluctant to trade pitching for position prospects without getting pitching in return. It could explain why the Orioles made a more concerted effort to select pitching in last year's amateur draft.

 

Stop listening to anyone sharing this analysis.

[BobPhelan]

One possible reason I've seen posited elsewhere is that Elias has begun to realize that teams are reluctant to trade pitching for position prospects without getting pitching in return. It could explain why the Orioles made a more concerted effort to select pitching in last year's amateur draft.

No that is a completely false narrative.

[dude]

It's not just the perspective that adding a good starter is valuable.

 

It's Stowers, it's Urias, it's the OF.  They offered arbitration to all 17 players and the arb contracts and the options don't fit on the roster.

 

The numbers don't work so something has to happen.  Everything they say can't happen.

 

For a team that doesn't want to spend any money, using ML contracts to try and send depth to the MiLs (options) or pass guys through waivers (no options) can maybe be a thing, but seems strange for this team.

 

It's not yet FEB so there's certainly time for whatever, but we're 3 weeks from ST.  Just because the market is slow doesn't mean you have to be slow.  There's lots of ways to shape the roster.  Again, maybe they just don't want to answer questions on anything next week so they wait another week+ to move guys around.

[mdrunning]

The Dodgers just traded 26 yo 1B Busch for 19 yo LHP prospect Jackson Ferris. Someone is doing it.

That's a far cry from trying to trade for a pitcher with a major-league track record and controllable years. The trade you're describing was done in part so the Dodgers could clear space on their 40-man. 

[mdrunning]

No that is a completely false narrative.

You're sure? I didn't proffer it as fact, but there has to be an explanation as to why Elias is having trouble moving some of his positional prospects for controllable pitching. If manages to trade the same for a top-level starter, then we'll know that this theory largely rings hollow.

[BobPhelan]

You're sure? I didn't proffer it as fact, but there has to be an explanation as to why Elias is having trouble moving some of his positional prospects for controllable pitching. If manages to trade the same for a top-level starter, then we'll know that this theory largely rings hollow.

I’m sure. Even if the lack of high end SP prospect has something to do with the perceived trouble finding a trade partner, I think it is because of the clogged up market in general, that has nothing to do with 2023’s draft strategy.

[RichardZ]

That's a far cry from trying to trade for a pitcher with a major-league track record and controllable years. The trade you're describing was done in part so the Dodgers could clear space on their 40-man. 

Sorry. Didn’t realize it was only on the ML level.