135 replies to this topic

[bmore_ken]

Ok, the holiday season is over. Time for the FO to do get on the stick. Its been a LONG time since the O's had a very good team AND the money and depth to be able to really upgrade the roster. Stop making excuses. Get some quality stuff done.

         

[Nigel Tufnel]

[Mike in STL]

The Orioles aren't going to spend. But the teams linked to Ohtani/Yamamoto that didn't sign them include Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays. So, they have hundreds of millions to allocate elsewhere. Wouldn't be surprised if all three of Bellinger, Snell, Hader, end up in the AL East, not on the Orioles. Bellinger looks like a Yankee. Tall. Lefty. Can jettison Rizzo and take his place at 1B. Play OF when Stanton/Judge inevitably tear an oblique. 

 

Snell would give the Yankees 2 aces and 2 #2s. Would give the Blue Jays 3 aces and 2 #2s. The Red Sox need 4 more SPs after Giolito, but Snell is a start. 

 

Everyone can use a Hader, and the BP arms are the easiest to flip for prospects if your team isn't in the running. 

[BSLSteveBirrer]

The Orioles aren't going to spend. But the teams linked to Ohtani/Yamamoto that didn't sign them include Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays. So, they have hundreds of millions to allocate elsewhere. Wouldn't be surprised if all three of Bellinger, Snell, Hader, end up in the AL East, not on the Orioles. Bellinger looks like a Yankee. Tall. Lefty. Can jettison Rizzo and take his place at 1B. Play OF when Stanton/Judge inevitably tear an oblique. 

 

Snell would give the Yankees 2 aces and 2 #2s. Would give the Blue Jays 3 aces and 2 #2s. The Red Sox need 4 more SPs after Giolito, but Snell is a start. 

 

Everyone can use a Hader, and the BP arms are the easiest to flip for prospects if your team isn't in the running. 

The FO is just lining up the long list of excuses why they weren't able to obtain any of those pieces. And I agree. Won't surprise me at all if all of those end up in the ALE and none of them on the O's. Shameful.

[dude]

Wouldn't be surprised if all three of Bellinger, Snell, Hader, end up in the AL East, not on the Orioles. 

 

If the Orioles needed a closer solution, then all in for Hader, but Bautista will be back so I'm not sure why we want to argue for Hader.  No idea where he winds up.  I think maybe Texas.

 

Zero interest in Snell or Bellinger.

 

Yeah, Snell has a couple Cy Youngs but he's been blah between them.  Ignore the challenges of 2020 and he's pitched 107 IP (103 ERA+), 128 innings (92 ERA+) and 128 inning (112 ERA+) in the 3 full seasons between.  Why in the world would anyone pay anything close to what he's asking for for the opportunity to regret that contract.

 

In 2018 and 2019, Chris Davis had a couple of the worst seasons in MLB history (OPS+ of 49 and 59)...in 2021 Bellinger had an OPS+ of 44.  Boras client seeking monster contract after platform year = near immediate regret.  I hope the Yankees sign Bellinger.  That's good for the Orioles now and long-term.

[Mackus]

If the Orioles needed a closer solution, then all in for Hader, but Bautista will be back so I'm not sure why we want to argue for Hader.

Really? No idea why anyone wants Hader?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He has an idea for Frazier's return though

[dude]

Really? No idea why anyone wants Hader?

 

I get that some people want to treat everything like they're playing Fantasy Baseball and everyone is fungibley (not a word) moving in and out of the lineup accumulating points....but the real people that do the real things we add up have influences that drive the results we want.  It's amazing to me how so many people act like the human pieces of life just don't matter....as if nothing drives performance outside of "arm talent" (or whatever).

 

I might not have been in favor of moving Bautista into the closer's role initially (that's not exactly correct, but doesn't matter here) but he's coming back to the closers role because he was literally the best closer in Baseball.  I'm not signing Hader to be the Closer unless I think Bautista is done.  I wouldn't sign him today because we've already signed Kimbrel and we're not moving Kimbrel off the Closer's role at this point.

 

Hader is going to want 6/110 (or whatever) and it's not going to be as an Oriole.

 

It's not a theoretical discussion.  It's a practical one.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I get that some people want to treat everything like they're playing Fantasy Baseball and everyone is fungibley (not a word) moving in and out of the lineup accumulating points....but the real people that do the real things we add up have influences that drive the results we want.  It's amazing to me how so many people act like the human pieces of life just don't matter....as if nothing drives performance outside of "arm talent" (or whatever).

 

I might not have been in favor of moving Bautista into the closer's role initially (that's not exactly correct, but doesn't matter here) but he's coming back to the closers role because he was literally the best closer in Baseball.  I'm not signing Hader to be the Closer unless I think Bautista is done.  I wouldn't sign him today because we've already signed Kimbrel and we're not moving Kimbrel off the Closer's role at this point.

 

Hader is going to want 6/110 (or whatever) and it's not going to be as an Oriole.

 

It's not a theoretical discussion.  It's a practical one.

Just wow coming from dude

[dude]

Just wow coming from dude

 

Wile E.,  It never works. 

[Mackus]

I get that some people want to treat everything like they're playing Fantasy Baseball and everyone is fungibley (not a word) moving in and out of the lineup accumulating points....but the real people that do the real things we add up have influences that drive the results we want. It's amazing to me how so many people act like the human pieces of life just don't matter....as if nothing drives performance outside of "arm talent" (or whatever).

I might not have been in favor of moving Bautista into the closer's role initially (that's not exactly correct, but doesn't matter here) but he's coming back to the closers role because he was literally the best closer in Baseball. I'm not signing Hader to be the Closer unless I think Bautista is done. I wouldn't sign him today because we've already signed Kimbrel and we're not moving Kimbrel off the Closer's role at this point.

Hader is going to want 6/110 (or whatever) and it's not going to be as an Oriole.

It's not a theoretical discussion. It's a practical one.

Every discussion is theoretical.

Hader makes as much sense as anyone else. Bautista was wildly important to the O's success last year and won't pitch in 2024 and may not be himself in 2025 and possibly will never be all that good again.

If he is back and good in 2025 and you also have Hader, that's a good problem. You'd of course discuss with Hader what the plan will be once/if Bautista is back and he'd have to be on board with whatever that is, otherwise the risk becomes too big, if you know he'll sulk if he's sharing spotlight with Bautista in two years.

It's incredibly easy to see why people want Hader and you'd have to be intentionally ignoring all the positives to say it doesn't make sense for the Orioles.

It doesn't make sense for John Angelos. But no good move will, including many of the ones you've suggested, so that can't be the only criteria for discussion.

Hader (or Clase) and one of the better SP solutions would be an A off-season for me. Kimbrel and the same SP isn't an A.

[DuffMan]

My expectations for the Offseason...

 

[Mike in STL]

I get that some people want to treat everything like they're playing Fantasy Baseball and everyone is fungibley (not a word) moving in and out of the lineup accumulating points....but the real people that do the real things we add up have influences that drive the results we want.  It's amazing to me how so many people act like the human pieces of life just don't matter....as if nothing drives performance outside of "arm talent" (or whatever).

 

I might not have been in favor of moving Bautista into the closer's role initially (that's not exactly correct, but doesn't matter here) but he's coming back to the closers role because he was literally the best closer in Baseball.  I'm not signing Hader to be the Closer unless I think Bautista is done.  I wouldn't sign him today because we've already signed Kimbrel and we're not moving Kimbrel off the Closer's role at this point.

 

Hader is going to want 6/110 (or whatever) and it's not going to be as an Oriole.

 

It's not a theoretical discussion.  It's a practical one.

I think the education system failed you.

[Mike in STL]

Hilarious. The most fantasy world brain on the board, with novels explaining why the Orioles should get Ian Happ in 3 team trades, that everyone else is all of a sudden ignoring that "these are real human beings you know!" 

[mdrunning]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Hader wind up in Texas. The Rangers have the resources, are not shy about spending them, and their bullpen was largely atrocious for much of last season.

 

And no, I don't think Hader makes much sense for the Orioles at this point (not that it's going to happen regardless). With the big contracts being handed out thus far, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone offer more than five years to land him. That's a pricey insurance policy.

[Mackus]

Rangers are see definitely the most likely landing spot for Hader, IMO. Clear need and plenty of resources. Dodgers also make sense. Less need, but limitless resources.

Should be a Oriole, IMO, but the owner doesn't care so we know how that'll go.

[mdrunning]

Rangers are see definitely the most likely landing spot for Hader, IMO. Clear need and plenty of resources. Dodgers also make sense. Less needed, but limitless resources.

Should be a Oriole, IMO, but the owner doesn't care so we know how that'll go.

I don't think Elias would make that deal even if he did have the go-ahead to do so. I just don't get the impression he believes in these nine-figure contracts.

[Mackus]

I don't think Elias would make that deal even if he did have the go-ahead to do so. I just don't get the impression he believes in these nine-figure contracts.

Depends on the total budget he's allocated. If he was allowed to go to $175M like I assume Baltimore revenues can easily support, then there is no (good) reason he'd shy away unless there is something specific about Hader he dislikes.

If he knows the max budget ever is $90M, then sure, but that's not Elias being afraid of big deals. That's Angelos striking, again.

[BaltBird 24]

Having two arms like Hader/Kimbrel or Bautista/Hader at the back end would be huge. Plus then you'd have Cano, Wells, Hall, etc available for high leverage 6th/7th inning spots.

Basically shorten the game by 2-3 innings.

[Mackus]

Having two arms like Hader/Kimbrel or Bautista/Hader at the back end would be huge. Plus then you'd have Cano, Wells, Hall, etc available for high leverage 6th/7th inning spots.

Basically shorten the game by 2-3 innings.

Agree except for Kimbrel's inclusion in the top tier group. He's not better than Cano, Wells, Hall, Coulombe, Perez etc. he just has a higher floor given his long and consistent track record of being good (although at his age could fall off a cliff any time).