50 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

MASN: Could Orioles pivot away from trying for a No. 1 starter and lower expectations?

https://www.masnspor...er-expectations

[Slidemaster]

To pivot away from trying for a #1 starter, they would need to make a genuine effort to land one in the first place.

[SonicAttack]

Makes sense especially if it's true that JA is in the selling the team now stage, don't want to add a lot more to the payroll as is. But then again, JA has always been cheap. 

[mdrunning]

Did Elias ever state the Orioles were looking to add a No. 1 starter? I don't recall his exact words, but I'm thinking it was more along the lines of a top half of the rotation starter, which could be anywhere between a No. 1 and a No. 3.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Did Elias ever state the Orioles were looking to add a No. 1 starter? I don't recall his exact words, but I'm thinking it was more along the lines of a top half of the rotation starter, which could be anywhere between a No. 1 and a No. 3.

Yeah, not gonna look up the exact wording but it was something along these lines. Def said at/near the TOR.

[Mackus]

I think they'll consider pursuing such a guy in trade. I strongly doubt Elias decides to pull the trigger, I think he'll seem the prospect cost too high, but I am as certain as anyone not in the inside can be that a free agent is not on the radar. They absolutely could and should pursue such a FA, but they have self-imposed some artificial constraints that prevent doing so.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think they'll consider pursuing such a guy in trade. I strongly doubt Elias decides to pull the trigger, I think he'll seem the prospect cost too high, but I am as certain as anyone not in the inside can be that a free agent is not on the radar. They absolutely could and should pursue such a FA, but they have self-imposed some artificial constraints that prevent doing so.

Yeah but they had a serious offer out on Bassitt last year! 🙄

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Article was weird in that its lowering expectations because of course. At the same time you get a quote that says they are still aiming higher than a Gibson or another Irvin. A back end guy just isnt needed.

[dude]

I accept that this entry just could be ridiculous public posturing to try and reduce the perception of commitment to a trade that maximizes what the Brewers (or Indians or WhiteSox) are asking for in the deal.

 

Whether the article (and the absurd things in it) is seriously considered or it's posturing for another purpose, either way, it's sad.

 

...either you aren't willing to get simple things done, or you aren't capable of getting simple things done.

[dude]

Spending is limited for a franchise that’s more than reluctant to launch the payroll into the upper echelon. An anchor is dropped. The room for movement is limited, small-to-mid-market status cutting off the ring.

 

Comically dumb.

 

Additional words I write here should be tragically disparaging to the actual intelligence of anyone believing this.

[BaltBird 24]

Roch is just peddling organizational propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less.

[dude]

The Orioles aren't signing any of these FAs.  They aren't.  They never were and honestly, I'm ok with that.

 

Why do the words people write try and align the fact they aren't going there as some justification of nothing.  Why does Roch (and others) act like "adding Yamamoto for 225M adds 225M to the 2024 payroll.  

 

The play was always trade.

 

You can get Bieber, you can get Cease, but the answer is Burnes and the Brewers 'public posturing' (even recruiting Boras into the narrative) is equally pathetic.

 

You can get Burnes and the post-Kimbrel payroll can still go down.

[mdrunning]

Is Burnes even available? Teams have inquired about him, but I haven't seen anything suggesting the Brewers are actively shopping him. 

[dude]

Roch is just peddling organizational propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Right and he says he doesn't do it, but, Exhibit A.

 

....but Roch can be an outlet for narrative in a positive way too.  If this posturing was to reduce the narrative of need with the Brewers in terms of what they are asking for, cool.  ....but what's sad is that would have to be a thing between the Orioles and Brewers.

 

How can we not be good enough to get things done with Teams without the silliness.

[Mackus]

Article was weird in that its lowering expectations because of course. At the same time you get a quote that says they are still aiming higher than a Gibson or another Irvin. A back end guy just isnt needed.

If we tier the SP into top, middle and back of rotation guys then Gibson and Irvin are clearly in that back tier. Irvin maybe not even good enough for that tier, he's more of a fringe guy. I'm skeptical the O's even get a mid tier guy, though what they desperately need and should be doing is playing in that top tier.

I could be ok with just a mid-tier SP, but probably will depend on the guy. Gray is in that tier and I'd have been excited about that. Rodriguez is also in that tier, and I'd not have been as excited about him (aside from the shock & elation of them actually doing anything of significance).

Only adding a backend guy will be a failure, as would doing nothing. Especially since they've taken the easy road for RP help. Had they signed Hader or traded for Clase, I would be more understanding of a less than ideal SP solution. That's not a knock on Kimbrel, just a knock on any plan that is merely doing the bear minimum at each step. Though even that bear minimum would be an improvement over recent off-seasons and deadlines. They've conditioned us well to always expect the worst.

[dude]

Is Burnes even available? Teams have inquired about him, but I haven't seen anything suggesting the Brewers are actively shopping him. 

 

Right, because announcing you're going to trade a guy produces the best package results.

 

They aren't giving him away....so when I suggest he's available, he's not free.....but there's a package the need to move him. 

 

Castrovince suggested Burnes/Adames for Lux/Sheehan.  That's laughably low.  If that was even remotely close, it would have been done yesterday.

 

Bowden suggested the Orioles giving up way to much (Mayo, Beavers, McDermott, ...) but that completely misses the results that the Brewers need.  They aren't (or shouldn't) go into the rebuilding BS....so ML 'now' players that fix the big problems with their roster are good.

 

Brewers were terrible at 1B and 2B.  They want Mayo but I want to pay a little more to keep him so they get Mountcastle and he signs a 6/50 deal (same service years as Mayo). . Norby is a top5 2B.  That solves the right side of their infield for the next 6 years.

 

Lux is from WI.  Dodgers MIGHT want to solve SS in a cheaper way given the rest of the roster.  Joey Ortiz for Lux and Lux is in the Brewers deal.  Lux is a guy the Brewers could likely extend....so they trade Adames, and Lux is SS for the next 4-6 years. 

 

They decide what role they want for Tyler Black....is he their 3B?  He may be better suited for the Super UTI role so they want a 3B option....great, let's fix that.  Orioles could likely trade Urias to the Mets for Mark Vientos (I'd actually suggest a bigger deal, but let's leave it there for now).  Heck, Urias brother used to be a Brewer, they might just like Urias as a reasonable 3B bridge to Brock Wilken.  Either way works, they can figure it out.

 

Marlins desperately need a SS and a more athletic OF.  Brewers have a glut of CF-ish options and made at least 2 of them expendable in the Chourio signing (good for them.  Marlins have a glut of pitching.  Marlins get Adames and Garret Mitchell and they give up starters 6 and 7.  That's probably Trevor Rogers and Ryan Weathers.

 

You trade Burnes to the Orioles and Adames to the Marlins and you have....

 

SS Lux

2B Norby

LF Yelich

1B Mountcastle

DH Bauers

C  Contreras

3B Black

CF Chourio

RF Frelick

 

and you have RHers Peralta, Rea, Houser and LHers Rogers, Miley, Weathers competing for 5 spots with Misioroski, Gasser and Rodriguez percolating at AAA for 2025.

 

That's a 5+ year plan that's affordable (they are the smallest market) and reasonably competitive.  Just go play well.

[dude]

I've said different combinations, but go with the above and that's want I said in the other thread.

 

Brewers get Mountcastle, Norby, Ortiz

Orioles get Burnes and their CompB pick

 

Mackus thought it was too much.

 

They want something more....ok, they get Urias and one of the RPs that can't make out roster (like Baker)

Orioles say ok, but want 1.5M in IFA Pool.

Brewers ask for one more player (not in Bob's top 30).

 

Done.

[mdrunning]

Right, because announcing you're going to trade a guy produces the best package results.

 

They aren't giving him away....so when I suggest he's available, he's not free.....but there's a package the need to move him. 

Not hanging out the For Sale sign isn't going to get you many offers on the house. You don't create competition among multiple buyers that way.

[dude]

Not hanging out the For Sale sign isn't going to get you many offers on the house. You don't create competition among multiple buyers that way.

 

fwiw, that's the exact same thing as using this public outlet (Roch/MASN) to pretend you don't care about a better SP.

 

It doesn't matter if the public understands it.  It's the relationships inside of the Game that matter for doing this and you don't need public announcements to validate availability. None of the 30 teams are confused.

 

We have plenty of information (what I characterize the the 80-90%) to understand what's going on.  There's certainly desire and nuance inside the thinking of every FO, but we don't have to understand every opportunity to understand the easier ones.

 

They aren't giving him away.  But the conditions exist that make him available if you can figure out the deal.  It's not likely a value deal where you are trying to get as many top 100 guys as you can to sell it to your fanbase.

[bmore_ken]

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