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Who's Better?


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#21 NewMarketSean

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 07:18 AM

KC, Philly, Niners are all better.

 

We're slightly below them with Miami and Jacksonville slightly below us.

 

Don't sleep on Jax.


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#22 Biggsy

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 08:57 AM

Hill has to be jammed at the line on every snap and a deep safety should never come within 15 yards of the LOS pre-snap. Take multiple illegal contacts and holdings, just don't let him get deep and behind everyone. 2 deep on every snap would be fine too.



You can't jam him. You think teams haven't tried? He's not just fast, he has an unreal first step as well, and has good strength for his size. On top of that, Miami puts him in motion all the time. McDaniel is a top notch offensive mind on top of having top notch offensive play makers.

I think Miami's defense is very beatable. We'd put up points for sure. But I don't think Monken could help himself. If the Ravens got up by 10+, I don't think Monken could commit to running the ball and burning clock to keep Miami's offense off of the field.

On the other hand, I do agree that I'm not sure our offense could score enough against KC's defense.

The rest of the season will be the Ravens litmus test for sure. They have the Rams, and a gauntlet of first place teams. By week 17, we'll know who the Ravens really are.

#23 DuffMan

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 09:21 AM

I think the Ravens can beat anyone in the AFC in the playoffs home or away, I could also see them losing a first round home game to  9-8 CLE/PIT



#24 SonicAttack

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 12:18 PM

 I think Rashee Rice is fast becoming KC legit WR threat.  

 

If Mahomes had legit WR he'd be unbeatable. He doesn't have legit WR. They're beatable.



#25 SonicAttack

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 12:20 PM

KC, Philly, Niners are all better.

 

We're slightly below them with Miami and Jacksonville slightly below us.

 

Don't sleep on Jax.

 

I think the Ravens are on par or better then the 49ers.  Agree on Jax, watch out.



#26 hallas

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 12:23 PM

You can't jam him. You think teams haven't tried? He's not just fast, he has an unreal first step as well, and has good strength for his size. On top of that, Miami puts him in motion all the time. McDaniel is a top notch offensive mind on top of having top notch offensive play makers.

I think Miami's defense is very beatable. We'd put up points for sure. But I don't think Monken could help himself. If the Ravens got up by 10+, I don't think Monken could commit to running the ball and burning clock to keep Miami's offense off of the field.

On the other hand, I do agree that I'm not sure our offense could score enough against KC's defense.

The rest of the season will be the Ravens litmus test for sure. They have the Rams, and a gauntlet of first place teams. By week 17, we'll know who the Ravens really are.

You can definitely jam him if you have someone that can contact him past a juke. But (assuming you're dedicating a double team on him most of the time) you're probably giving up underneath stuff to him.

Of course you don't just have Hill to worry about, you also have Waddle. Are you running cover 2 or quarters all game?

#27 mweb08

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 12:33 PM

Miami is very capable of feasting on poor teams, but haven't shown much against good competition. If the timing of their passing attack is thrown off by pressure and or coverage taking away the first read, it becomes pretty pedestrian. They certainly still possess big play potential, but I don't think they're really that close to the elite teams like the Ravens.

#28 NewMarketSean

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 01:35 PM

Miami is very capable of feasting on poor teams, but haven't shown much against good competition. If the timing of their passing attack is thrown off by pressure and or coverage taking away the first read, it becomes pretty pedestrian. They certainly still possess big play potential, but I don't think they're really that close to the elite teams like the Ravens.

 

And yet they've beaten us twice with Tua.


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#29 mweb08

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 02:07 PM

And yet they've beaten us twice with Tua.


This year?

#30 Biggsy

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 02:12 PM

You can definitely jam him if you have someone that can contact him past a juke. But (assuming you're dedicating a double team on him most of the time) you're probably giving up underneath stuff to him.



I would love to see proof of this. Teams have tried. Problem 1, McDaniels puts him in motion all the time. Problem 2, there isn't s CB in the league that can consistently do it. You try and press Hill, it's going to end badly for the defense. He's that good. There is a reason he's on pace to beat the all time receiving yards record. He's averaging 120 yards a game this season. Teams have tried everything. It comes down to simply being ok with Hill getting his, and trying to stop everyone else.

As others have said, pressuring Tua consistently and you blow everything up. If Armstead is healthy, that becomes a lot harder.

#31 hallas

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 03:01 PM

I would love to see proof of this. Teams have tried. Problem 1, McDaniels puts him in motion all the time. Problem 2, there isn't s CB in the league that can consistently do it. You try and press Hill, it's going to end badly for the defense. He's that good. There is a reason he's on pace to beat the all time receiving yards record. He's averaging 120 yards a game this season. Teams have tried everything. It comes down to simply being ok with Hill getting his, and trying to stop everyone else.

As others have said, pressuring Tua consistently and you blow everything up. If Armstead is healthy, that becomes a lot harder.

 

 

Belichick does a lot of high-low bracket coverage with the under-man guy jamming Hill at the LOS.  It worked against the Chiefs.  Against the Dolphins it's been 50/50, but in the games that it hasn't worked, Waddle also exploded.  I do think that Belichick has less secondary talent currently than he has in the past.  But it's tough to guard both.  IMO the main deterrent to doing this kind of coverage against Hill all game is Waddle, not that it won't work against Hill.

 

MacDonald doesn't play man that much, so we'll see how it works out.  While I know there's no equal to Hill right now, we've played some pretty good receivers and had some good success.  The current secondary is pretty good at zone coverage as well even against elite receivers.

 

I agree that getting home on Tua is a big priority but we can't do it by sending extra guys too much because of how good the receivers are.  Hopefully MacDonald's stunts and fire zones continue to work well.



#32 bmore_ken

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 08:02 PM

I remember the game threads and week-aftermath of the Ravens clunker at home against Denver in 2012. Flacco was never going to get it done. The team was done. Blow it up. You name it, folks said it. With absolute conviction.

 

The AFC is pretty wide open this year for at least 4 teams I think, and it's going to be mostly who gets the hottest and maybe a lucky break or two.  And which coaches don't make big mistakes. :)  Baltimore, KC, Buffalo, Miami, maybe Jacksonville.  If Burrow hadn't gotten hurt, Cincy would have been in that mix too.  Home field will be important I think, moreso than it's been in recent years.  Don't ask me for detailed reasons, just a gut feeling.

 

Chiefs are giving up 4.6 yards per carry right now on defense.  Bills are allowing 4.7 yards per carry on defense.  Those are 4th and 5th worst averages in the NFL right now.  You have to go in to those games leaning heavy on the run and stick with it throughout, even if you fall behind a score early.  

And these are the two things that worry me. Everything that needs to be said about Harbaugh has been said, so I'll leave that there.  Our running game has been under utilized imo. It got a little bit better Sunday, but too often we get a lead and Monken is still throwing the ball like we're behind. With 4 turnovers, that game on Sunday  shouldn't have come down to a last minute td. Khalil Mack is dominating your line on pass plays? How about more running and less passing?



#33 makoman

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 08:11 PM

And these are the two things that worry me. Everything that needs to be said about Harbaugh has been said, so I'll leave that there. Our running game has been under utilized imo. It got a little bit better Sunday, but too often we get a lead and Monken is still throwing the ball like we're behind. With 4 turnovers, that game on Sunday shouldn't have come down to a last minute td. Khalil Mack is dominating your line on pass plays? How about more running and less passing?


FWIW we are 2nd in the league in rush attempts and 31st in pass attempts. Ran more than passed and had almost 200 yards Sunday.

#34 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 08:13 PM


FWIW we are 2nd in the league in rush attempts and 31st in pass attempts. Ran more than passed and had almost 200 yards Sunday.

ROFL. Same complaints with Roman despite the same type of run/pass distribution. I truly dont have an opinion on Monken but he will be enemy #1 by the end of the season.

#35 bmore_ken

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Posted 28 November 2023 - 08:18 PM

FWIW we are 2nd in the league in rush attempts and 31st in pass attempts. Ran more than passed and had almost 200 yards Sunday.

I'm talking situational. Of course we're up there in rushing attempts because we have a game plan that includes Lamar running along with the backs. But again that game shouldn't have been as close as it ended and the main reason it was is because every time Lamar attempted a pass Mack was in his face. You have to make game adjustments. A guy is kicking your butt on pass plays, take that away with your run game instead of feeding him with shots at the QB since the line and backs obviously couldn't stop him. JMO



#36 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 29 November 2023 - 07:01 AM

And yet they've beaten us twice with Tua.


Different year, different personnel on defense, Mike Macdonald with a year and a half as DC under his belt and Chuck Smith coaching the OLBs.

Also, there seems to be something to how Miami has feasted on the bad teams and folded like an accordion against the good teams.

Either way, our curiosity will be satisfied in a few weeks.
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#37 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 29 November 2023 - 07:08 AM

ROFL. Same complaints with Roman despite the same type of run/pass distribution. I truly dont have an opinion on Monken but he will be enemy #1 by the end of the season.


I get what you're driving at but I'll disagree for a couple of reasons. (1) Points per game are up by 5 over 2021 and 7 over 2022. (1a) Red zone efficiency has increased.(2) In spite of the continued low pass attempts, the passing offense is much more efficient. Lamar is completing over 68% of his passes and his yards per attempt are up on his career average and nearly a yard better than last year. (3) Despite being near the bottom in pass attempts and near the top in rushing attempts, there's still a feeling amongst the fanbase that we don't run the football enough.

With all of that said, I suppose I should never underestimate the stupidity of an NFL fanbase at large.
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#38 BSLJamieSieck

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Posted 29 November 2023 - 07:34 AM

I would love to see proof of this. Teams have tried. Problem 1, McDaniels puts him in motion all the time. Problem 2, there isn't s CB in the league that can consistently do it. You try and press Hill, it's going to end badly for the defense. He's that good. There is a reason he's on pace to beat the all time receiving yards record. He's averaging 120 yards a game this season. Teams have tried everything. It comes down to simply being ok with Hill getting his, and trying to stop everyone else.

As others have said, pressuring Tua consistently and you blow everything up. If Armstead is healthy, that becomes a lot harder.


Jamming Tyreek Hill is virtually impossible. However, looking back at how we guarded him in '20 and '21 under Wink, Hill was limited to a combined 5 catches for 91 yards in 2 games. IIRC, we doubled and sometimes tripled Hill in those games.

OTOH, whatever Mike Macdonald did in '22 clearly didn't work as Hill went off (11 for 190, 2 TDs). When Miami comes to The Bank, let's hope we watched a ton of film from '20 and '21 and we do what we can to emulate that.

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"Just remember, whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right." -Stewie Griffin


#39 makoman

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Posted 29 November 2023 - 07:54 AM

Jamming Tyreek Hill is virtually impossible. However, looking back at how we guarded him in '20 and '21 under Wink, Hill was limited to a combined 5 catches for 91 yards in 2 games. IIRC, we doubled and sometimes tripled Hill in those games.

OTOH, whatever Mike Macdonald did in '22 clearly didn't work as Hill went off (11 for 190, 2 TDs). When Miami comes to The Bank, let's hope we watched a ton of film from '20 and '21 and we do what we can to emulate that.

I know it all counts, but Hill was only 6 for 48 in the first 3 quarters last year. And I feel like Macdonald is a lot better now than he was at that point. He's a great player and those guys do great things sometimes, but I think we are at least capable of slowing him down.


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#40 hallas

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Posted 29 November 2023 - 03:17 PM

Jamming Tyreek Hill is virtually impossible. However, looking back at how we guarded him in '20 and '21 under Wink, Hill was limited to a combined 5 catches for 91 yards in 2 games. IIRC, we doubled and sometimes tripled Hill in those games.

OTOH, whatever Mike Macdonald did in '22 clearly didn't work as Hill went off (11 for 190, 2 TDs). When Miami comes to The Bank, let's hope we watched a ton of film from '20 and '21 and we do what we can to emulate that.

Against the Fins we had Marcus Peters coming off the ACL injury and Marlo out. JAD and Pepe Williams were pressed into a lot of usage and they were exposed pretty badly. Also Hamilton was playing his 2nd game and screwed up some assignments.

We really haven't seen those kinds of breakdowns since like the 2nd half of last year continuing on to this year and we've played some good receiving corps.
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