382 replies to this topic

[Mike in STL]

I read where Harbaugh later said the intent was to kick the field goal after running the clock down as far as possible. However, Linderbaum thought he saw a Steeler in the neutral zone and snapped the ball back to Lamar, which caught everyone by surprise.

Of course, it might have just been better to kick and not worry about leaving a few extra seconds to a Pittsburgh offense which was moving about as well as a stalled car at that point.

This is complete BS by Harbaugh. Ball was snapped at 45 seconds on the 3rd and 10. So if he wanted to run it down and kick the FG, he would have stood by the ref, waited for the clock to hit :03 on the 4th and 2, call TO, like you see every single week in those situations.

If they were trying to hard count the Steelers into jumping and getting a first down and maybe a shot or two at the end zone, then once again, that wasn’t communicated to everyone. You don’t snap the ball in that situation. If a D-lineman jumps, someone stands up and points, and it’s not the center. The center doesn’t snap the ball with the QB not expecting it. Jackson wasn’t not expecting it, people ran routes. Blockers blocked. Clearly a play was called.


Miscommunication. Lies. Zero accountability. No one protects the ball. Damn shame.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I don’t believe for a second that the coaching staff gave our center carte Blanche to just snap the ball whenever he felt like it.

[mdrunning]

This is complete BS by Harbaugh. Ball was snapped at 45 seconds on the 3rd and 10. So if he wanted to run it down and kick the FG, he would have stood by the ref, waited for the clock to hit :03 on the 4th and 2, call TO, like you see every single week in those situations.

If they were trying to hard count the Steelers into jumping and getting a first down and maybe a shot or two at the end zone, then once again, that wasn’t communicated to everyone. You don’t snap the ball in that situation. If a D-lineman jumps, someone stands up and points, and it’s not the center. The center doesn’t snap the ball with the QB not expecting it. Jackson wasn’t not expecting it, people ran routes. Blockers blocked. Clearly a play was called.


Miscommunication. Lies. Zero accountability. No one protects the ball. Damn shame.

I'm sure the plan was let the clock run down, try and draw the Steelers offsides, then give the Ravens a couple of shots at the end zone with about, what, 15 seconds left? I'm sure there are those (and I don't mean you or anyone here) who would have been screaming at Harbaugh for simply taking the points and giving the Steelers a final, abbreviated possession right before the half.

 

Linderbaum took responsibility for the error and admitted the plan was not to snap the ball. Of course, the flip side would be Harbaugh putting his center in that position because he didn't think his defense could keep the Steelers from scoring when they would have had to cover 75 yards in about 30 seconds.

[bmore_ken]

I get that the receivers dropped a lot of balls out there today.  And that did affect the game.  Both Bateman and Agholor dropped balls that could have changed this from a heartbreaking loss to a blowout win.  But it happens.  Nobody catches them all.  Earlier I just saw Travis Kelce drop one that he should have caught.  Nobody in the league is more sure handed than him.  We've seen Bateman do that before.  That and the injuries are why I am seriously questioning whether he will ever become a decent receiver.  That's plagued Agholor his whole career and is why he keeps changing teams.  

 

But the two mistakes by the coach and QB are the ones I think carry more weight.  Harbaugh is a veteran head coach.  He also has seen enough of this rivalry to know that points are usually tough to come by.  He's got the best kicker in the league.  Take the 3.  If he takes the 3 it's 13-3 at the break.  Even after the safety it's 13-5.  At the point in the game when Pittsburgh kicked their second FG, they might have gone for it.  Instead of 10-8, it might have stayed at 13-5.  The game may have played out differently.  Inexcusable that a head coach with Harbaugh's experience continues to bypass somewhat easy points.

 

And the mistake by the QB cost the team another 3 points at the least.  He actually had a pretty good day up until then.  But one bonehead mistake wiped that all out.  Inexcusable for a franchise QB to make that throw in that position.  At that point you have to protect the FG.  Even if you just cover up or throw it away.  The only thing you can't do is turn it over.   That would be a bad throw by a rookie.  A terrible throw by a veteran.  For a franchise QB, unacceptable.    Didn't he do that last season against the Bills at home?  And he threw a terrible pick against the Giants, even though it was not a red zone pick.  He has to clean that part of his game up if he wants to be considered a good passer in this league.  

Agree on Harbaugh and said as much in an earlier three. The only reason I don't agree on Jackson is those 10 points we didn't get becuase of Harbs and Bateman. Lamar might not have even been in position to make that throw to begin with becaused there would have been no need. Larger lead, less need for passing. Strictly my opinion of course. And to be clear, I had a feeling they would lose when Harbs didn't take that 3 points. 

[bmore_ken]

I don’t believe for a second that the coaching staff gave our center carte Blanche to just snap the ball whenever he felt like it.

I don't either. No one looked surprised by that snap. 

[cprenegade]

Agree on Harbaugh and said as much in an earlier three. The only reason I don't agree on Jackson is those 10 points we didn't get becuase of Harbs and Bateman. Lamar might not have even been in position to make that throw to begin with becaused there would have been no need. Larger lead, less need for passing. Strictly my opinion of course. And to be clear, I had a feeling they would lose when Harbs didn't take that 3 points. 

 

I agree.  The reason they were in that position wasn't because of Lamar Jackson.  But they were in that position for whatever reason and I would expect my $50 million QB to be better than that.  Lot of blame to go all around.  

[ivanbalt]

No stupid turnovers and the Ravens should be pretty safe.

3 stupid turnovers to go with dropped passes and coaching incompetence.  I've never seen a team consistently bail out another under performing team year after year like the Ravens do with the Steelers.

[PrimeTime]

Glad I didn't watch too much of that game live. Eesh.

[NewMarketSean]

Knew about halfway through the 3rd quarter how this game was going to play out. That’s perhaps the most annoying thing, this team rarely ever makes pessimistic fans wrong. 

[PrimeTime]

You can talk about any number of things going sideways yesterday but once again, you cannot lose by -2 in the turnover column. The other issues don't cost you the game if you take care of the football.

Not to say you gloss over the lack of execution and yet another head scratching coaching decision/issue but those things are much easier to deal with in the context of a win.

With a schedule that certainly appears to be getting tougher, the Ravens, unfortunately, have bricked 2 dunks.

[PrimeTime]

Same is true if he doesn’t throw a pathetic end zone INT. That was Boller’esque. Just terrible.

Nothing infuriates more than the fade in the end zone. It's an incredibly low percentage play. It's essentially a 1 man route with that receiver being your only read, the receiver has to run the perfect route, not only to get some spacing from the DB but also space from the sideline. Then, the QB has to make a spotless throw. Literally everything has to go right.

That play was dead at the snap and it was compounded by an absolutely abysmal throw.

Truly a mind boggling series of events; particularly when you consider the fumble recovery got the Ravens to 6 yard line and the game could've been put away.

[Mike in STL]

Rewatched the end of half sequence.

Ravens call timeout on 3rd and 10. LJ comes to the sideline and he’s not talking to Harbaugh. Harbaugh is milling about maybe talking to someone on the headset. LJ is talking to a coach, but I don’t know who. Monken is in the booth, definitely not Harbs. After the catch bringing up 4th and 2 there are 39 seconds on the game clock, 40 on the play clock. You can take it all the way to :01 and call timeout. The Steelers have a TO, so they could have called it if they really intended on doing anything with the ball and about 30 seconds left. Since they were willing to pocket it, you have to think they will kneel out the time left, which they did anyway.

LJ starts hustling guys to the line, making some kind of play call. LJ shifts Hill in motion to the other side of him. Linderbaum calls out the Mike. This very much looks like a play. The snap looks like every other shotgun snap. Using the foot stomp as a signal to snap the ball. No attempt at a hard count. If they think the LB entered the natural zone then this gullible group needs their eyes checked. Harbaugh looks like what I looked like. Couldn’t believe it. But he’s a spectator, so that checks out.

It wasn’t a hard count. It looked like a play. Harbaugh never stopped it. They snapped it with 23 seconds left on the play clock and I’m pretty sure the headset in LJs helmet cuts off at 15. So no one in his ear is saying “don’t snap.” The Steelers weren't stopping it. It’s not miscommunication, it’s non-communication.

I know teams make mistake all the time. But the way the Ravens do it, with the frequency it happens, and the stupidity of the reasoning, that seems unmatched.

[jamesdean]

Glad I didn't watch too much of that game live. Eesh.

I had a lot of yard work to do, so I DVR'd the game and listened to it on the radio.  I turned it off half-way through the 4th quarter because I accepted the inevitable and was tired of being enraged while handling sharp tools.  And as you might have guessed, I won't watch a second of the game.  DELETE! 

[PrimeTime]

Definitely a weird game to watch back because, if the WRs execute the simple act of catching the football, all of the other mistakes, miscues, "miscommunications", etc would have been made irrelevant.

[Mike in STL]

Nothing infuriates more than the fade in the end zone. It's an incredibly low percentage play. It's essentially a 1 man route with that receiver being your only read, the receiver has to run the perfect route, not only to get some spacing from the DB but also space from the sideline. Then, the QB has to make a spotless throw. Literally everything has to go right.

That play was dead at the snap and it was compounded by an absolutely abysmal throw.

Truly a mind boggling series of events; particularly when you consider the fumble recovery got the Ravens to 6 yard line and the game could've been put away.

The analytics community hates that play, or route, or whatever you want to call it. I hate it too. You would think such an analytical team would just not do that. 

 

I'm sure it was miscommunication. Those are things they will clean up going forward.

[eyeroll]

[SonicAttack]

Lamar was disserviced by his receivers, they catch those dropped balls and it's an entirely different outcome.  Lamar does need to improve his decision making.  

[Ravens2006]

Lamar is going to make a couple mistakes a game. I think folks need to get over the "X million dollar a year QB wins that game" thing. The salary is going rate for starting QBs these days, and he'll be eclipsed by a lot over the next 3 or 4 years including by some who will never even sniff the success he has had.

The coaching staff exacerbates the negative impact of the mistakes the players make on the field with their own decisions. And often times it is because the coaching staff put them in a position where risk vs reward wasn't worth it.

Eagles game back in '13 or '14 maybe? Can't remember exactly. Anyway, late 4th quarter, Ravens have the ball deep in Philly territory on a first down, with the lead. Instead of running three times, burning more clock and/or making Philly burn their TOs... Team John has Joe throwing more. Interception takes points off the board, gives Philly life and hope, and the Ravens wound up having to stop a 2 point conversion at the final gun basically to win.

Yes, Joe threw an INT. So sure, it's his fault or whatever. Can't remember if there was pressure or something but it does not matter. The coach needs to look at the scoreboard, the clock, the TOs remaining, and say... "Hey Marty, or whoever, keep this ball on the ground". That's all.

He doesn't do it. Ever. And they give away games year after year because of it.

[bmore_ken]

Knew about halfway through the 3rd quarter how this game was going to play out. That’s perhaps the most annoying thing, this team rarely ever makes pessimistic fans wrong.

I knew they were gonna lose when Harbaugh passed on that field goal. Happens every time he does it.

[bmore_ken]

You can talk about any number of things going sideways yesterday but once again, you cannot lose by -2 in the turnover column. The other issues don't cost you the game if you take care of the football.

Not to say you gloss over the lack of execution and yet another head scratching coaching decision/issue but those things are much easier to deal with in the context of a win.

With a schedule that certainly appears to be getting tougher, the Ravens, unfortunately, have bricked 2 dunks.

Actually, the other issues do cost you the game between the pass on the FG, and the touchdown drop, that's 10 points. There's your game. Those ten points even with the turnovers is still a win.

[Ravens2006]

I knew they were gonna lose when Harbaugh passed on that field goal. Happens every time he does it.

The worst thing that might have ever happened to create the Harbaugh monster was that 4th down in Seattle where Lamar ran it in for a TD after "talking John in to going for it". There was so much media hype and hoopla over the aggressive call, Lamar showed leadership, yadda yadda yadda.

What we have since come to learn for the most part is LAMAR is ALWAYS going to look to the sideline on 4th and short and signal he wants to go for it. Always. That's his mentality. He doesn't have to play defense or special teams, he is ONLY concerned with trying to score points as QB. And in that regard, fine. Good, I want my QB to have that confidence. But it's the job of the head coach to look at big picture and not get caught up in the emotions of that moment... of the player's emotions pushing you in to a bad / risky decision.

Because it worked out well early on, they've been killing themselves over and over and over with it ever since. And it started to really impact them in the TEN playoff game that January.