The team could have traded Brooks after 1964, probably for a haul as the MVP, most RBIs in the league, and best fielder in the game. Probably 99.99% of O's fans would have remained O's fans. Maybe '66 and '70 go the same way, let's say they made a good trade so assume they do. So no one would be worse off and everything would be basically the same, to Chris. Maybe it's even better, depending on the trade.
I didn't live through that time, but I would be really shocked if anyone who did, who could look back and see both outcomes, would be ok with that. Older relatives spoke reverently of him, yes even casual baseball fans. The outpouring of support I've seen this week is amazing for someone who last played close to 50 years ago. It's just obvious that this man meant a lot to the Baltimore community. If he plays the last 10+ years of his career on the Cardinals you very likely lose all that.
The game has changed, so you basically expect everyone to leave within 6 years. You have to be ok with that, or you can't really be a fan. Just about every team extends some guys, but just by the percentages your favorite player will probably be elsewhere in 5 years. The Adam Jones 10 year guy is the exception. We all hated the Adam Wainwright game, but I bet his career was pretty cool for Cards fans. But anyway, being ok with it is far different than actively rooting for it. To talk about wanting to get rid of Adley, before he's even finished his first full year on the roster, it's just so weird to me. You're saying I don't want what I've just seen with Brooks. No, not everyone is going to be like Brooks or even Adam Jones. It's probably unlikely Adley becomes the new Mr. Oriole. But if you trade everyone after 3-4 years then unlikely becomes impossible. I am loathe to tell anyone how to fan, but I will just say I can't understand it, I can't understand giving that no value.
I wish we'd had Frank for 20 years, even though I never saw a game of his. Yes, I wish we still had Manny, a lot of people hated him by the end but I wasn't one. I wish Mussina stayed. Eddie Murray was my favorite player growing up, I wish he wasn't traded. Of course I remained a fan of the team when all those guys left, but I don't see that as some kind of check and mate. Just because it was fine doesn't mean it couldn't have been better. It would have been nice to root for them their whole careers, just like for my parents' generation it was no doubt nicer getting to root for over 20 years of Brooks.
If the team has like 80% turnover in the next few years, I'll live with it. I can respect 2035 and Mike saying they'd leave. I imagine I'll still be a fan, I've been a fan for 40 years, what am I going to do watch the Nats? But my experience will, IMO, be richer if a bunch of these guys I followed in the minors who gave me some hope and excitement during the years the team sucked, that were directly part of this turnaround and caused this fun season, continue to be on the team for 10+ years. Ultimately I will root for the laundry, but I don't think that's some gotcha. No player is bigger than the team, teams and fans always move on, but the people matter too, it's an enhancement as people said. Just because it's fine doesn't mean it can't be better. If we somehow just got 26 new free agents and won I'm sure it would still be great, but it would sure feel strange I think. It would have been a better experience, to me, to root for not just the team I liked but also for the players that I've grown to like.
The team could have traded Brooks after 1964, probably for a haul as the MVP, most RBIs in the league, and best fielder in the game. Probably 99.99% of O's fans would have remained O's fans. Maybe '66 and '70 go the same way, let's say they made a good trade so assume they do. So no one would be worse off and everything would be basically the same, to Chris. Maybe it's even better, depending on the trade.
- Kind of apples and oranges given the differences of 1964 vs. 2023.
I didn't live through that time, but I would be really shocked if anyone who did, who could look back and see both outcomes, would be ok with that. Older relatives spoke reverently of him, yes even casual baseball fans. The outpouring of support I've seen this week is amazing for someone who last played close to 50 years ago. It's just obvious that this man meant a lot to the Baltimore community. If he plays the last 10+ years of his career on the Cardinals you very likely lose all that.
- He meant so much to the community because he was part of the franchise for 68 years. That isn't happening again. If he was starting his Orioles career today, he's probably not a lifetime Oriole. His accomplishments, his longevity, his talent, and who he was as a person are all remarkable. It's understandable why he was held in such regard.
The game has changed, so you basically expect everyone to leave within 6 years. You have to be ok with that, or you can't really be a fan. Just about every team extends some guys, but just by the percentages your favorite player will probably be elsewhere in 5 years. The Adam Jones 10 year guy is the exception. We all hated the Adam Wainwright game, but I bet his career was pretty cool for Cards fans. But anyway, being ok with it is far different than actively rooting for it. To talk about wanting to get rid of Adley, before he's even finished his first full year on the roster, it's just so weird to me. You're saying I don't want what I've just seen with Brooks. No, not everyone is going to be like Brooks or even Adam Jones. It's probably unlikely Adley becomes the new Mr. Oriole. But if you trade everyone after 3-4 years then unlikely becomes impossible. I am loathe to tell anyone how to fan, but I will just say I can't understand it, I can't understand giving that no value.
- I like players as individuals. If I enjoyed watching their talents coming up in the Minors, or with the O's, I often root for them some when they've moved on. Especially if they had some connection to Baltimore, and I liked their personalities. Adley is probably the best catcher in the game right now. He's fun to watch, a leader. A quality young man. I hope he gets a ring with the O's, and I'll have appreciated his time here. I'm not interested in extending him. I am interested in extending Gunnar, who I think is going to be perennially in the MVP discussion. But if that's not possible, I'll want him moved too. Similarly, I'm not telling you how to fan. If you feel attachment to these guys, ok. Or want to feel attachment to these guys, ok. I don't. It might change your fan experience. It does not change mine.
I wish we'd had Frank for 20 years, even though I never saw a game of his. Yes, I wish we still had Manny, a lot of people hated him by the end but I wasn't one. I wish Mussina stayed. Eddie Murray was my favorite player growing up, I wish he wasn't traded. Of course I remained a fan of the team when all those guys left, but I don't see that as some kind of check and mate. Just because it was fine doesn't mean it couldn't have been better. It would have been nice to root for them their whole careers, just like for my parents' generation it was no doubt nicer getting to root for over 20 years of Brooks.
- Murray was also my favorite player as a kid. I remember where I was talking to my Dad when he was traded. Thought I wouldn't get past that, and then they had the '89 season. First example to me that players and come and go and my fan experience wasn't changed. If it was for you and others, I respect that.
If the team has like 80% turnover in the next few years, I'll live with it. I can respect 2035 and Mike saying they'd leave. I imagine I'll still be a fan, I've been a fan for 40 years, what am I going to do watch the Nats? But my experience will, IMO, be richer if a bunch of these guys I followed in the minors who gave me some hope and excitement during the years the team sucked, that were directly part of this turnaround and caused this fun season, continue to be on the team for 10+ years. Ultimately I will root for the laundry, but I don't think that's some gotcha. No player is bigger than the team, teams and fans always move on, but the people matter too, it's an enhancement as people said. Just because it's fine doesn't mean it can't be better. If we somehow just got 26 new free agents and won I'm sure it would still be great, but it would sure feel strange I think. It would have been a better experience, to me, to root for not just the team I liked but also for the players that I've grown to like.
- It's an enhancement for you and others and again I can understand that. I was thinking of this season vs. 97. At some point I think I would have argued similar to you here about enjoying watching a team come up and be home grown and developed vs. a group mercenaries; and maybe I still feel that to a degree. But if there's a difference, it's extremely slight to me. The great majority of the fanbase are casual bandwagon fans. I think the great majority of them stay on the bandwagon if the O's continue to win, and jump if they go back to being putrid. And while I think casual fans and many super fans alike, like having players they connect with, and can identify... I think when most of the super fans say they wouldn't stop being fans if player x leaves, than that enhancement of connection only means so much. But that's for every individual to decide.
As I've said before, I suspect the O's will reach an extension with Adley.