39 replies to this topic

[JeffLong]

Check out my latest post here on BSL about my favorite free agent!
(Sports Guy, this post is dedicated to you!)

http://baltimorespor...ife.com/?p=5132

[SportsGuy]

I appreciate the dedication but ughhh! Lol

Btw, I will say that this is an idea I like for the blogs.

Dedicating articles on the pros and cons of several different players available via free agency and trades.

Not sure what extent Tucker knows other organizations minor league guys but looking at who could be blocked and available from other teams would be useful blogs.

Oh and no on McCarthy.

[JeffLong]

I appreciate the dedication but ughhh! Lol

Btw, I will say that this is an idea I like for the blogs.

Dedicating articles on the pros and cons of several different players available via free agency and trades.

Not sure what extent Tucker knows other organizations minor league guys but looking at who could be blocked and available from other teams would be useful blogs.

Oh and no on McCarthy.

Starting with Profar/Andrus and Mike Olt no doubt! Haha

[Tucker Blair]

I appreciate the dedication but ughhh! Lol

Btw, I will say that this is an idea I like for the blogs.

Dedicating articles on the pros and cons of several different players available via free agency and trades.

Not sure what extent Tucker knows other organizations minor league guys but looking at who could be blocked and available from other teams would be useful blogs.

Oh and no on McCarthy.

Anyone that played in the Eastern League or NYPL I have a solid grasp on for the most part.

[mweb08]

I agree with your conclusion Jeff.

I'm pretty confident in the starters the O's already have, but if some are dealt and/or they don't have confidence in some, McCarthy is a solid target and would represent good value at less than 10 million a year. I say that with the disclaimer that I want to know more about his medical status.

Oh, and congrats on post #2131 Jeff!

[JeffLong]

I agree with your conclusion Jeff.

I'm pretty confident in the starters the O's already have, but if some are dealt and/or they don't have confidence in some, McCarthy is a solid target and would represent good value at less than 10 million a year. I say that with the disclaimer that I want to know more about his medical status.

Oh, and congrats on post #2131 Jeff!

Heh, I didn't even notice. Thanks!

[SportsGuy]

He isn't enough of a GB pitcher, even if he can get back to his 2011 rate, to overlook all the other issues.

Disaster waiting to happen in many ways, including health.

[Mackus]

I'd rather roll the dice with Haren than McCarthy, IMO.

[SportsGuy]

I'd rather roll the dice with Haren than McCarthy, IMO.

Yea, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Haren has always been the superior pitcher and McCarthy has recently dealt with bigger injury concerns than Haren...and he has battled injuries in previous years as well.

[mweb08]

Yea, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Haren has always been the superior pitcher and McCarthy has recently dealt with bigger injury concerns than Haren...and he has battled injuries in previous years as well.

Cameron's article presents a very good anti-Haren argument.

It comes down to their medicals and cost for me, neither of which we know a great deal about at the moment. Based on what's happened with the Angels and Cubs with Haren, he may very well be the bigger injury risk.

[Kevin Ebert]

Yea, I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Haren has always been the superior pitcher and McCarthy has recently dealt with bigger injury concerns than Haren...and he has battled injuries in previous years as well.

I think it's pretty easy to argue for McCarthy. He was a better pitcher in the most recent season, 2012. Haren has back issues, serious enough that the Angels (a team with lots of cash) turned down his 1 year option for $15.5m. Also, the Cubs backed out of their agreed upon trade for him - which we can only assume was after they had a chance to look at his medicals and saw something they didn't like.

Further - McCarthy is likely to take less money and less years to sign than Haren. Even with Haren's back problems it's likely he's going to want a 3 or 4 year deal because of his track record. McCarthy may be open to signing a 1 or 2 year contract for $9-10m per season. I agree with Jeff that he's a good guy to target for the O's.

[SportsGuy]

Cameron's article presents a very good anti-Haren argument.

It comes down to their medicals and cost for me, neither of which we know a great deal about at the moment. Based on what's happened with the Angels and Cubs with Haren, he may very well be the bigger injury risk.

I will take a back injury over a concussion and shoulder issues...especially since McCarthy has had other injury issues in the past.

[SportsGuy]

I think it's pretty easy to argue for McCarthy. He was a better pitcher in the most recent season, 2012. Haren has back issues, serious enough that the Angels (a team with lots of cash) turned down his 1 year option for $15.5m. Also, the Cubs backed out of their agreed upon trade for him - which we can only assume was after they had a chance to look at his medicals and saw something they didn't like.

Further - McCarthy is likely to take less money and less years to sign than Haren. Even with Haren's back problems it's likely he's going to want a 3 or 4 year deal because of his track record. McCarthy may be open to signing a 1 or 2 year contract for $9-10m per season. I agree with Jeff that he's a good guy to target for the O's.

No way Haren is getting 3-4 years.

I say they both get 1 or 2 year deals...Haren probably signs for 2-5 million a year more...but since he is easily the superior pitcher, the little bit of extra money would be worth it.(although, if some team is dumb enough to give him 9-10 million a season, the salary may not be different at all)

I wouldn't even consider McCarthy for any amount. There isn't a starting pitcher on the team right now that I would want McCarthy pitching in front of.

[mweb08]

I will take a back injury over a concussion and shoulder issues...especially since McCarthy has had other injury issues in the past.

I don't think it's as simple as that.

[SportsGuy]

I just don't see how you could give him 9-10 million a year.

In 2011, he pitched 170 innings...The next closest was the 111 he threw in 2012.

He only broke 100 IP one other time in his career.

He doesn't miss bats, doesn't get K's and isn't that much of a GB pitcher outside of 1 year, where there were 25 AL pitchers that had a higher GB rate than he did(those who pitched 100 innings or more).

His GB rate that year wasn't that great...it was very good but its not like he had some kind of 2:1 GB/FB ratio or anything even close to that.

His HR rate would likely be high in OPACY as well.

He is a good guy to pitch in a big park. Pitching in Oakland, he also had the benefit of pitching in Safeco and LA at times on the road.

The control is great and certainly something that is a big plus for him..there is no denying that.

But everything else screams that he is someone you stay away from. From the lack of Ks to the lack of missed bats to the injury history.

[mweb08]

McCarthy has actually been better in FIP than Haren each of the past 2 years, is better cumulatively in ERA over those two years, and has a slightly higher xFIP over that period. Haren has pitched more, though.

[SportsGuy]

I don't think it's as simple as that.

Haren was still able to pitch 176 innings last year...which is more than McCarthy has ever pitched in any year.

How can you say that McCarthy is worth a 2/18-20 contract and ignore his injuries but turn around and say Haren isn't worth that, especially when Haren has been way better and way more durable in their careers?

It just doesn't make sense.

[SportsGuy]

McCarthy has actually been better in FIP than Haren each of the past 2 years, is better cumulatively in ERA over those two years, and has a slightly higher xFIP over that period. Haren has pitched more, though.

And McCarthy also pitched a season in 2011 that he has never come close to duplicating, so that only means so much.

[SportsGuy]

People are fine with giving him a contract that basically equals what he did, in terms of his monetary worth, for SIX of the last seven years...COMBINED!

Yes, the one year he was great but it was 1 year out of 7!!!

This is just mind boggling to me.

I could see if you wanted to give him a 1/5 type deal that was incentive laden and had a second year option to where maybe he could end up making 2/18-20 with IP totals but to GUARANTEE that? Crazy.

[mweb08]

Haren was still able to pitch 176 innings last year...which is more than McCarthy has ever pitched in any year.

How can you say that McCarthy is worth a 2/18-20 contract and ignore his injuries but turn around and say Haren isn't worth that, especially when Haren has been way better and way more durable in their careers?

It just doesn't make sense.

How can you read what I've been saying and claim I'm ignoring his injuries?

The case against Haren is just as evident to most others as you think the case is against McCarthy, and it was laid out very well by Dave Cameron. I can't help it that you choose to be dismissive of it.

Once again, I'm willing to considering both pitchers and the medicals and cost would be determining factors.