155 replies to this topic

[NewMarketSean]

Well at least Givens will be available tonight LOL

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Use your best bullets in the highest lev spots. That was the top of the order in the 7th in a 1 run game. My god do you people only use hindsight. No thats an easy spot to give to Cano. Wanting to use Givens in his 2nd game back against the top of that order. Come on.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Cano is getting barreled up more though. Hes very good but like 2.50 ERA good. Too many balls put in play to be dominant. Some balls are gonna find grass and lead to runs

[DuffMan]

It turned out fine but I still question Hyde turning to Cano in the 7th when Givens threw 9 pitches in the 6th. Cano is likely out tonight. Givens could have started the 7th with Cano available if needed. I hate burning up another arm when the previous pitcher sails through an inning.

Here's something else Hyde does that drives me crazy.  Gets guys up in the pen and then doesn't use them.  Over the weekend the broadcast crew mentioned they weren't sure of someone was available that day in the pen (Perez maybe).  The reason being despite not pitching the night before, Hyde him warm up 3 different times!   

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Here's something else Hyde does that drives me crazy. Gets guys up in the pen and then doesn't use them. Over the weekend the broadcast crew mentioned they weren't sure of someone was available that day in the pen (Perez maybe). The reason being despite not pitching the night before, Hyde him warm up 3 different times!

That really is brutal but its because he pushes guys with plans to remove at any sight of trouble. Buck always had a plan. He always thought ahead. Good BP managers do. Hyde flies by the seat of his pants.


If the pen flames out this year people will want to put it on the starters but 15-18 outs from a SP is common everywhere now. Id bet the Os arent particularly low in the IP by their starters department. It will be much more on Hyde. Starters getting less outs per game obviously means the pen is getting more outs per game. You better find a manager who knows how to manage a pen.

[Mike in STL]

That really is brutal but its because he pushes guys with plans to remove at any sight of trouble. Buck always had a plan. He always thought ahead. Good BP managers do. Hyde flies by the seat of his pants.


If the pen flames out this year people will want to put it on the starters but 15-18 outs from a SP is common everywhere now. Id bet the Os arent particularly low in the IP by their starters department. It will be much more on Hyde. Starters getting less outs per game obviously means the pen is getting more outs per game. You better find a manager who knows how to manage a pen.

Buck is the worst bullpen manager in the history of baseball. I think this past weekend I caught a glimpse of Britton still sitting in the pen in Toronto.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Buck is the worst bullpen manager in the history of baseball. I think this past weekend I caught a glimpse of Britton still sitting in the pen in Toronto.

I get holding that decision against him, and maybe that outweighs anything else....   but Buck was masterful with the pen imo. 

[BSLSteveBirrer]

I get holding that decision against him, and maybe that outweighs anything else....   but Buck was masterful with the pen imo. 

In the long game, absolutely. But he had no clue when to focus on the now only and forget about tomorrow.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

That really is brutal but its because he pushes guys with plans to remove at any sight of trouble. Buck always had a plan. He always thought ahead. Good BP managers do. Hyde flies by the seat of his pants.


If the pen flames out this year people will want to put it on the starters but 15-18 outs from a SP is common everywhere now. Id bet the Os arent particularly low in the IP by their starters department. It will be much more on Hyde. Starters getting less outs per game obviously means the pen is getting more outs per game. You better find a manager who knows how to manage a pen.

The O's are 16th in baseball in IP by starters. So bottom half. You can decide if that's "particularly low" for yourself.

 

https://www.mlb.com/...itched?split=sp

[makoman]

The O's are 16th in baseball in IP by starters. So bottom half. You can decide if that's "particularly low" for yourself.

 

https://www.mlb.com/...itched?split=sp

5.2 innings per start is among 6 teams tied for 12th and is MLB average. I don't think that's particularly low.

 

https://www.baseball...-pitching.shtml

[jamesdean]

5.2 innings per start is among 6 teams tied for 12th and is MLB average. I don't think that's particularly low.

 

https://www.baseball...-pitching.shtml

Yeah, I'm not sure what people are expecting from Hyde, considering that no team in baseball is consistently sending any starter out there for 7 innings.  Just isn't going to happen in today's game.  I would think most managers are fully prepared to trot out a minimum of 3-4 pitchers a night, if not more depending on what's happening in the late stages of the game.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

5.2 innings per start is among 6 teams tied for 12th and is MLB average. I don't think that's particularly low.

https://www.baseball...-pitching.shtml

I wouldve guessed middle of the pack but you see the top team is 5.8. Every team is covering, on avg, over 3 innings a game with their pen. Thats baseball now. I think BP management is one of the bigger jobs a manager has in the game

[makoman]

I wouldve guessed middle of the pack but you see the top team is 5.8. Every team is covering, on avg, over 3 innings a game with their pen. Thats baseball now. I think BP management is one of the bigger jobs a manager has in the game

Yeah, BP (and its management) is very important these days. Just 10 years ago today's average of 5.2 would have been last (5.4 was last) and today's best 5.8 would have been below average (5.9 was average). So teams are basically getting two more outs per game with the BP. Having a great one like last year is a big weapon. Hopefully they can keep that a strength.

 

I imagine openers skew the stats some but have no clue how to account for that. I don't think they're being used quite as much as a few years ago but no idea about the actual data.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Yes but the followon question is how many pitchers are teams using to cover those last 3 innings?

 

PS - The stat I posted was total IP by starters and the Os ARE 16th in the league. Perfect example of how you can use stats to tell the story you want. Average those out over 50 games and its a different metric.

[makoman]

Yes but the followon question is how many pitchers are teams using to cover those last 3 innings?

League average is 157 relief games in 49 team games or 3.2 relievers per game, with each reliever getting 3.4 outs. The O's have used the most, 3.625 relievers per game, each getting 3.2 outs on average.

 

10 years ago the average was 2.95 relievers per game, each getting 3.1 outs. So today there are more relievers and they are also each getting more outs. But the 3 batter rule and LOOGYs mostly going away changed things.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

League average is 157 relief games in 49 team games or 3.2 relievers per game, with each reliever getting 3.4 outs. The O's have used the most, 3.625 relievers per game, each getting 3.2 outs on average.

 

10 years ago the average was 2.95 relievers per game, each getting 3.1 outs. So today there are more relievers and they are also each getting more outs. But the 3 batter rule and LOOGYs mostly going away changed things.

So the O's are using an average of almost 1/2 an extra reliever each game. Which doubles my point. Our starters are not getting enough outs and we are also using too many relievers.

 

But its working so far.