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Balt Sun: Birdland Caravan: Orioles GM Mike Elias on free agents, infield prospects, Grayson Rodriguez and more


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#21 mweb08

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 01:37 PM

More succinctly, their actions from last opening day to now don't suggest any significant switch in approach.

#22 BobPhelan

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 01:45 PM

FWIW my question was how will you balance trying to contend for a playoff spot while also trying to give prospects and younger players time to develop the way they need to.

The answer was that winning comes first and that may be to the detriment of the prospects. Could see guys stay in AAA longer than expected. But also that these things have a tendency to work themselves out. Good problem to have.

#23 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:11 PM

FWIW my question was how will you balance trying to contend for a playoff spot while also trying to give prospects and younger players time to develop the way they need to.

The answer was that winning comes first and that may be to the detriment of the prospects. Could see guys stay in AAA longer than expected. But also that these things have a tendency to work themselves out. Good problem to have.

 

At best I think it's the other way around, and you could argue with the warm-bodied placeholders they added they chose neither path.



#24 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:20 PM


At best I think it's the other way around, and you could argue with the warm-bodied placeholders they added they chose neither path.

Who is a warm bodied placeholder other than Frazier. Whos blocking who. Westburg is not a 2b. Vavra is not a 2b. Not unless yku want laughable defense.

#25 makoman

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:22 PM

Westburg is not a 2b. ... Not unless you want laughable defense.

You're just making stuff up now.



#26 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:29 PM


You're just making stuff up now.

Whatever. That wasnt the main point and Ill stick by that he doesnt play 2b outside of an emergency pinch to boot. Why wont he play there outside of a pinch. Because he doesnt play good defense there.

#27 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:33 PM

Who is a warm bodied placeholder other than Frazier. Whos blocking who. Westburg is not a 2b. Vavra is not a 2b. Not unless you want laughable defense.


Why is Westburg not a 2nd baseman?



#28 BobPhelan

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:33 PM

Westburg would be fine at second base but he is better suited for the left side. Ortiz is more of a SS/2B while Westburg is more of a SS/3B.


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#29 DuffMan

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:34 PM

Not sure if this was in that article, but these are interesting quotes:

https://twitter.com/...CEApvgP-Aw&s=19

Mike Elias said the Orioles are still considering other moves, but “if we end up with this group, … we’re fine with that.” He said their offseason moves “clicked off our exact wishlist,” saying they’ve “boosted and reinforced” the team’s internal talent.

I imagine MIke Elias as a kid making the least exciting Christmas list ever but still being excited when the day arrived because he got everything he wanted.


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#30 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:36 PM

If you could be adequate at SS, you can certainly be adequate at 2nd. 

 

As Bob said above, 3rd might be Westburg's best position.... but unless you make Henderson the SS, that's not happening. 

And Mayo factors at 3rd as well, though I still think we ultimately see Mayo at 1st / DH despite the arm. 

 

IMO, could easily at some point this year have Henderson at 3rd, Ortiz at SS, Westburg at 2nd. 



#31 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:37 PM


Why is Westburg not a 2nd baseman?

Because hes literally not a 2b. Has never played there before some time there last year. Why did that happen. Because they have other studs who were at the same levels who also played on the left side. One in particular, Ortiz, is flat out a superior defender at SS.

#32 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:38 PM


Westburg would be fine at second base but he is better suited for the left side. Ortiz is more of a SS/2B while Westburg is more of a SS/3B.

With respect you all thought Vavra would be fine at 2b. If Westburg is fine at 2b like Vavra is fine at 2b then he shouldnt play 2b.

#33 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:39 PM

Who is a warm bodied placeholder other than Frazier. Whos blocking who. Westburg is not a 2b. Vavra is not a 2b. Not unless yku want laughable defense.

 

If they chose to take the purely developmental path, then let Rodriguez/Hall/Bradish/Kremer/Wells/Voth/Zimmerman and eventually Means makeup your rotation. If you take the path towards winning, then Gibson and Irvin aren't taking you there.

 

I'll take the words of the many who think Westburg will work out just fine in the big leagues at 2b.



#34 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:40 PM

Because hes literally not a 2b. Has never played there before some time there last year. Why did that happen. Because they have other studs who were at the same levels who also played on the left side. One in particular, Ortiz, is flat out a superior defender at SS.

 

They want position versatility.  They draft SS's (typically best athletes) and let them play their way off. But they like guys playing / capable of playing multiple positions. 

Ortiz is better at SS by all reports.  

 

And Westburg's ticket to the majors is his bat by all reports. 

But I've never seen any scouting report that says Westburg can't be an average defensive 2nd baseman.

 

And he played 69 games at SS in '21, and 54 games at SS in '22... which is a pretty good indication they didn't think he was a trainwreck there.  If he's anywhere near adequate at SS, he should be able to hold up at 2nd.


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#35 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:45 PM

You can, as in its possible, have big 2b but that transition from the left side to right side for someone 6'3 I cant tell you how harder it is than someone 5'10 and more agile like Ortiz.


Quick someone tell me all the noteable 6'3 2b out there. Or non notebale ones. Hes a left side guy and when the Os never play him there Im not gonna hear well he couldve done it. There will have been a reason they never did it.

#36 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:47 PM

Quick someone tell me all the noteable 6'3 2b out there. Or non notebale ones. Hes a left side guy and when the Os never play him there Im not gonna hear well he couldve done it. There will have been a reason they never did it.

 

Does 6'4" count?

 

https://www.baseball...lemahdj01.shtml



#37 makoman

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:48 PM

They want position versatility.  They draft SS's (typically best athletes) and let them play their way off. But they like guys playing / capable of playing multiple positions. 

Ortiz is better at SS by all reports.  

 

And Westburg's ticket to the majors is his bat by all reports. 

But I've never seen any scouting report that says Westburg can't be an average defensive 2nd baseman.

 

And he played 69 games at SS in '21, and 54 games at SS in '22... which is a pretty good indication they didn't think he was a trainwreck there.  If he's anywhere near adequate at SS, he should be able to hold up at 2nd.

That's the way I feel. If you are on the same team as Ortiz and Gunnar they wouldn't be wasting SS reps on you if you are terrible there. And if you are that terrible at 2B then you are terrible at SS.



#38 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:48 PM

You can as in its possible to have big 2b but that transition from the left side to right side but for someone 6'3 I cant tell you how harder it is than someone 5'10 and more agile like Ortiz.


Quick someone tell me all the noteable 6'3 2b out there. Or non notebale ones. Hes a left side guy and when the Os never play him there Im not gonna hear well he couldve done it. There will have been a reason they never did it.

Yeah we can think what we want about the off-season and general priorities/urgency, but I see little reason to question this regimes decisions as it pertains to which position best suits a prospect and stuff like that. They see him every day and will make whatever call they feel they need to make there. It would seem a little frustrating to me if he really can’t cut it at 2B, but it is what it is if that’s the case. Up the middle defense is super important, particularly for a team clearly playing money ball.

#39 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:49 PM

Does 6'4" count?

https://www.baseball...lemahdj01.shtml

1 keep going. I said it wasnt impossible

#40 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 03 February 2023 - 02:51 PM

1 keep going. I said it wasnt impossible

 

How many precedents are actually a requirement in order for Westburg to have a chance to be adequate at 2B? (Hint: Zero)


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