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Balt Sun: Five things for Orioles fans to look forward to in 2023


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#21 Mike B

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 02:03 PM

I look forward to seeing Gunnar and G-Rod and Stowers and Bradish and Hall, and pretty much most of the young guys playing.  I look forward to Means returning, hopefully at full strength.  I look forward to having the Angelos family lawsuit completed - hopefully leading toward a sale of the team to new owners (non-Angelos).  

I don't expect an above .500 w/l record - if that they finish above .500 it will be surprising.  I don't expect the front office to spend much money or give multi-year contracts to anyone (even current young stars) until the Angelos family lawsuit is over, and probably not until new owners take over. 

Welcome and this is a real good post.


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#22 You Play to Win the Game

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 02:08 PM

Yes, welcome aboard. Don’t be shy.

#23 BSLMikeLowe

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 02:43 PM

Where is the extension and where do we stand on the 800 million the Orioles could get to improve the facilities.

 

It's actually $600M (plus another $600M for M&T when the Ravens re-up their lease). I'm wondering if the hold-up on this has to do with the lawsuit. At the heart of the suit is control of the club. Seems that locking them in to a 25-30 year lease is a big enough thing that has to wait until that issue is settled. I'm almost expecting to hear that they will be exercising one of their 1-year options before we hear about a long-term lease.



#24 mweb08

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 03:30 PM

There is absolutely a lot to look forward to next year! However, Ricker is right that everything dude and anyone would point to could have been mentioned in September. This failure of an offseason (absolutely an F) has dampered the excitement
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#25 Mackus

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 03:36 PM

There is gonna be plenty to be excited about this year, it'll just always be dampened by management not caring to even do the bare minimum to try and improve the team. The abandonment is very frustrating.
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#26 Mackus

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 03:48 PM

Lol, just realizing I made the exact same comment as Weber.

#27 Mike B

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 03:53 PM

There is gonna be plenty to be excited about this year, it'll just always be dampened by management not caring to even do the bare minimum to try and improve the team. The abandonment is very frustrating.

 

I think 2023 is going to be an interesting year, and I think the Orioles will be around .500 give or take a few games either way.  Your last comment is interesting.  I don't think what the organization has done or not done this off season is abandonment, but more arrogant and stubborn.

Elias again told the fans and his team, that they were not good enough and proceeded like it was okay just to fill holes, without making enough of a leap to get them good enough.

The first 4 years, Elias has basically been the farm director and he has done a very good job building the farm system.  He did this with absolutely no regard for the product he put on the field for the major league team.  The time is now for that role to reverse and for him to become the general manager, whose primary focus is to win in Baltimore with the Orioles.  This off season has not been done with that in mind.


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#28 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 03:55 PM


There is gonna be plenty to be excited about this year, it'll just always be dampened by management not caring to even do the bare minimum to try and improve the team. The abandonment is very frustrating.

None of that will matter if they are positioned well and add during the deadline.

#29 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 03:59 PM

I think 2023 is going to be an interesting year, and I think the Orioles will be around .500 give or take a few games either way. Your last comment is interesting. I don't think what the organization has done or not done this off season is abandonment, but more arrogant and stubborn.
Elias again told the fans and his team, that they were not good enough and proceeded like it was okay just to fill holes, without making enough of a leap to get them good enough.
The first 4 years, Elias has basically been the farm director and he has done a very good job building the farm system. He did this with absolutely no regard for the product he put on the field for the major league team. The time is now for that role to reverse and for him to become the general manager, whose primary focus is to win in Baltimore with the Orioles. This off season has not been done with that in mind.

Agreed. Def not abandonment. I agree there could be, maybe even likely, stubborness. I agree with those that say they are seemingly stuck on getting proper value and thats stopped them from overpaying.
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#30 Mackus

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:11 PM

None of that will matter if they are positioned well and add during the deadline.

Yes it will. I'd much rather spend money for talent than trade away prospects. Adding at the deadline would be good, but it's worse than having added before the season. Forfeiting the off-season also may prevent the team from being in position to add. At least as far as this management team views being in position.

There is no justification for the garbage they've done this off-season. If they can't add some pieces in trade it's currently a complete disaster. A few barely better than lateral moves at the back of the roster was not the plan that needed to be executed.
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#31 BaltBird 24

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:22 PM

Yes it will. I'd much rather spend money for talent than trade away prospects. Adding at the deadline would be good, but it's worse than having added before the season. Forfeiting the off-season also may prevent the team from being in position to add. At least as far as this management team views being in position.

There is no justification for the garbage they've done this off-season. If they can't add some pieces in trade it's currently a complete disaster. A few barely better than lateral moves at the back of the roster was not the plan that needed to be executed.


This. The price of everything at the deadline is inflated. We could've covered most of our needs this off-season through Free Agency without losing from the system.

#32 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:30 PM

Yes it will. I'd much rather spend money for talent than trade away prospects. Adding at the deadline would be good, but it's worse than having added before the season. Forfeiting the off-season also may prevent the team from being in position to add. At least as far as this management team views being in position.

There is no justification for the garbage they've done this off-season. If they can't add some pieces in trade it's currently a complete disaster. A few barely better than lateral moves at the back of the roster was not the plan that needed to be executed.

Ill argue that wasnt the plan.  I do agree with those that say Elias isnt ready to be all in right now. And yes, overpaying a Bassitt assuming he could have been swayed,  is an all in move when it comes to the Orioles. DO you think he will never be at a point where he will hand out a contract to a Bassitt type player. I think its crazy to think he will never be willing to do that. 



#33 Mackus

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:32 PM

It's what they did, whether they intended to do more or not, you don't get credit for wanting to sign guys for 75% of market. There were many smart moves to be made. Completely reject the suggestion that anything worth doing would be an overpay.

#34 dude

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:37 PM

This thread is already great.

 

1) Why does anyone believe that they were going to be more aggressive this off-season?

 

2) For the several comments regarding selling the Team, I would point out that their script is working.

 

3) We don't need all of our depth.  You can't use it all (go back to the Meaningless Depth thread) and you'll have many opportunities to get more. ....but that should have happened BEFORE the FA market was cleared out so now there's no-where for teams to turn (to add) if they complete a trade.



#35 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:37 PM

It's what they did, whether they intended to do more or not, you don't get credit for wanting to sign guys for 75% of market. There were many smart moves to be made. Completely reject the suggestion that anything worth doing would be an overpay.

I think he tried to make moves that werent overpays. He wasnt willing to up the ante. If you want to criticize that I think its fair but I'll contine to be patient. He cant get around the fact that this is a group and a team on the come up. But Im not worried at all that he is going to continue to horde and or refuse to do what it takes to get talent here to try to push us over the top



#36 weird-O

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:38 PM

None of that will matter if they are positioned well and add during the deadline.

May I ask you to explain your vision for how they can be positioned well to add during the season? 

 

As a primer, I'll share my thoughts for why that doesn't seem likely.

 

1) The subtractions and their replacements are pretty much a wash, with little to no improvement.

2) They will have some players for a full season, but rookie players tend to struggle as the league adjusts to them, and before they can adjust back. That back and forth takes weeks to months. Those weeks/months represent many games. 

3) The teams they chased last season, have made significant additions. This only furthers the divide between last year's surprise upstart team and one that intends to contend with last year's roster.

4) Elias said last year's roster wasn't good enough to make the playoffs. This year's roster is nearly identical.    


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#37 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:47 PM

May I ask you to explain your vision for how they can be positioned well to add during the season? 

 

As a primer, I'll share my thoughts for why that doesn't seem likely.

 

1) The subtractions and their replacements are pretty much a wash, with little to no improvement.

2) They will have some players for a full season, but rookie players tend to struggle as the league adjusts to them, and before they can adjust back. That back and forth takes weeks to months. Those weeks/months represent many games. 

3) The teams they chased last season, have made significant additions. This only furthers the divide between last year's surprise upstart team and one that intends to contend with last year's roster.

4) Elias said last year's roster wasn't good enough to make the playoffs. This year's roster is nearly identical.    

-Even with an under .500  Sept they were one of the best teams in the baseball from mid to late May on. 

 

- THere are 3 WCs  and a more balanced schedule. Im not overly concerned about the rest of the division.  Winning the division is ideal but its far from necessary.

 

- Rookies could struggle or step back but young guys are also the ones most likely to make big jumps and overachieve compared to expectations. Its a two way street. 



#38 mweb08

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 04:58 PM

It's what they did, whether they intended to do more or not, you don't get credit for wanting to sign guys for 75% of market. There were many smart moves to be made. Completely reject the suggestion that anything worth doing would be an overpay.


The term overpay generally rightly comes with a negative connotation and several people have been using it that way this season as a defense for the lack of moves (some while praising the dumbfounding overpays of Frazier and Givens), but it would have actually been smart to overpay this offseason on short-term deals. The O's were in a perfect situation to do so.

A 3/72 deal for Bassitt for instance may be an overpay (not even worth arguing imo), but it was the prudent move regardless.

It's also not even close to an all-in move.

#39 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 05:09 PM

For an organization that is obviously going to keep a low payroll and is likely being sold soon its an overpay and its a big investment. Its sad but its true. When I say an All In move I dont mean one move in of itself is all in. Its a mindset to be all in and go for it. Which means other substantial FA signings and or likely trading off minor league assets to acquire ML talent

#40 mweb08

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Posted 02 January 2023 - 05:23 PM

For an organization that is obviously going to keep a low payroll and is likely being sold soon its an overpay and its a big investment. Its sad but its true. When I say an All In move I dont mean one move in of itself is all in. Its a mindset to be all in and go for it. Which means other substantial FA signings and or likely trading off minor league assets to acquire other ML talent

 

It would have been a prudent investment. 

 

Alright regarding your definition of all in, but that is the mindset that they should have had. This was clearly an amazing opportunity to add to a young, talented, and super cheap core in order to significantly increase the chance of success and do so without even damaging the future in any particularly meaningful way.

 

Instead of taking advantage of that opportunity by making meaningful upgrades, they have chosen a path to this point of replacing Lyles with a similar pitcher (that I prefer to be clear), replacing Lopez with a meh reliever, not replacing Mancini other than with Stowers, adding a meh or worse infielder for some reason, and adding a decent backup catcher. The catcher part makes sense but this is incredibly disappointing otherwise and there's no good defense for it, we just don't know for sure how to parse out the blame between ownership and Elias.






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