67 replies to this topic

[Mike B]

Based on our young core improving and debuting and the vets who will still be around and in their prime yes the window should be wider in '24 vs 23

Making real moves now, does not or should not mean we can not better the team next year even if most of the growth in 24 is fueled by the graduating prospects.

Sorry, Elias does not get to delay competing at the highest level anymore.  

83 wins should have triggered going after the division.

 

He has spent 18 M on two marginal guys.  I would have prefered one good pitcher than a decent starter and a guy who should be a utility guy on a good team.

 

So far this off season, at best he should get a C- and that is me being kind.

[bmore_ken]

Making real moves now, does not or should not mean we can not better the team next year even if most of the growth in 24 is fueled by the graduating prospects.
Sorry, Elias does not get to delay competing at the highest level anymore.
83 wins should have triggered going after the division.

He has spent 18 M on two marginal guys. I would have prefered one good pitcher than a decent starter and a guy who should be a utility guy on a good team.

So far this off season, at best he should get a C- and that is me being kind.

Totally kind compared to what he gets from me.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Totally kind compared to what he gets from me.

Me too.

 

Lets say we are at midterms. I'd give him a D-. Still room to turn his grade around by ST but everyday that goes by it looks less likely if for no other reason than the number of available targets has dropped a bunch.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Making real moves now, does not or should not mean we can not better the team next year even if most of the growth in 24 is fueled by the graduating prospects.

Sorry, Elias does not get to delay competing at the highest level anymore.  

83 wins should have triggered going after the division.

 

He has spent 18 M on two marginal guys.  I would have prefered one good pitcher than a decent starter and a guy who should be a utility guy on a good team.

 

So far this off season, at best he should get a C- and that is me being kind.

 

Make that $23M now with Givens back. Nothing wrong with a veteran BP, but given how successful they've been picking those types of guys off the waiver wire, I sure would like to have found out what they could have gotten in a starter with all that money.

[mweb08]

Make that $23M now with Givens back. Nothing wrong with a veteran BP, but given how successful they've been picking those types of guys off the waiver wire, I sure would like to have found out what they could have gotten in a starter with all that money.

Bassitt >>> Gibson, Frazier, Givens

Really this largely comes down to Bassit vs Gibson as I doubt the other two will make much of a positive contribution (if any) compared to who they'll take time from.

And yes, I know Bassitt has 2 additional years so it's not totally apple to apples and that goes against Elias' quote about free agent starting pitchers, but I'd be more than happy to take on those 2 extra years.

Also this should go without saying, but obviously there should be tens of millions of dollars available to spend beyond this as well.

[Mackus]

I'd also much rather have Bassitt (and be committed for 2 more years) than Gibson, Frazer, and Givens.

 

And more also, why bother choosing.  Just get Bassittand those other guys if you like them.  There is no practical limit on payroll over the short-term.  You could add like $60M to last year's team without cracking 9 figures.

[mweb08]

I'd also much rather have Bassitt (and be committed for 2 more years) than Gibson, Frazer, and Givens.

 

And more also, why bother choosing.  Just get Bassittand those other guys if you like them.  There is no practical limit on payroll over the short-term.  You could add like $60M to last year's team without cracking 9 figures.

 

Yes in terms of spending, but I would still be critical of those 3 signings even though of course what they've done so far would be much more palatable if they also signed Bassitt.

 

Just as I greatly prefer Bassitt to these three, I'd much rather have another high level player on top of Bassitt than these three. This was not an off-season to work on roster depth.

[Mike B]

I really thought Elias approached everything with a plan.  I think his plan this year was to over spend on adequate ML players. 

To be clear, I think all 3 can be useful players in 2023.  Gibson may even prove to be a solid middle of the rotation guy, but 23 M for all 3 seems like an over spend.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I really thought Elias approached everything with a plan. I think his plan this year was to over spend on adequate ML players.
To be clear, I think all 3 can be useful players in 2023. Gibson may even prove to be a solid middle of the rotation guy, but 23 M for all 3 seems like an over spend.

I mean it’s the absolute bare minimum that does nothing to move the needle and creates the illusion that they’re spending money.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I really thought Elias approached everything with a plan.  I think his plan this year was to over spend on adequate ML players. 

To be clear, I think all 3 can be useful players in 2023.  Gibson may even prove to be a solid middle of the rotation guy, but 23 M for all 3 seems like an over spend.

 

They're just nibbling at the margins. All three could very conceivably be an upgrade over who they'll replace from last season. But they have several internal options that could do what Frazier will (and perhaps better), and they've proven adept at finding a Givens-type on the waiver wire. Take what those two will make and you could have found better than Gibson, which means you'd have something much better than Lyles was.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I mean it’s the absolute bare minimum that does nothing to move the needle and creates the illusion that they’re spending money.

Now its just the bare min and an illusion whereas before it was he's not going to spend period. Keep moving the goalposts. Youve already told me you will still all shit all over him if he finishes with Wacha and Gallo. Agenda much

[mweb08]

Now its just the bare min and an illusion whereas before it was he's not going to spend period. Keep moving the goalposts. Youve already told me you will still all shit all over him if he finishes with Wacha and Gallo. Agenda much

 

That wouldn't be a good off-season. Both of those guys have some potential but both seem to have a better chance of being players you'd literally rather not even have on the roster than being productive. Wacha is the better bet to be decent from what I can tell, but it looks like he was lucky last year and his recent track record otherwise is underwhelming to be kind. He and Gibson would be an incredibly disappointing SP haul to me.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

That wouldn't be a good off-season. Both of those guys have some potential but both seem to have a better chance of being players you'd literally rather not even have on the roster than being productive. Wacha is the better bet to be decent from what I can tell, but it looks like he was lucky last year and his recent track record otherwise is underwhelming to be kind. He and Gibson would be an incredibly disappointing SP haul to me.

Im talking directly to Herm here. Even if Elias finishes it off with 2 guys similar to who I said above the offseason grade will be in the C range.

[BaltBird 24]

Sign Evoladi and get a solid back up C and I could be somewhat content.

[mweb08]

Im talking directly to Herm here. Even if Elias finishes it off with 2 guys similar to who I said above the offseason grade will be in the C range.

 

Wacha and Gallo and calling it a day is a D- at best from me. 

 

That would be zero guys I wanted coming into the offseason being acquired and most of the signings not even make much sense to me at all. It would be (and already has been) a significant diversion from what the philosophy that they should have had for this offseason and would represent an incredible missed opportunity. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Wacha and Gallo and calling it a day is a D- at best from me. 

 

That would be zero guys I wanted coming into the offseason being acquired and most of the signings not even make much sense to me at all. It would be (and already has been) a significant diversion from what the philosophy that they should have had for this offseason and would represent an incredible missed opportunity. 

I hope you arent this harsh a grader at school

[BaltBird 24]

I hope you arent this harsh a grader at school

Lol at sitting back a thinking that Gibson, Frazier, and Givens is a quality off-season. Adding Wacha and Gallo to that would do nothing.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Lol at sitting back a thinking that Gibson, Frazier, and Givens is a quality off-season. Adding Wacha and Gallo to that would do nothing.

Sure, Herm 2.0. So disingenuous. Just unrealistic expectations or overrating the guys in the 2nd tier. Newsflash. Wacha and Gibson arent that big a step down from Bassitt and Tallion or whoever else from that 2nd tier of SPs. To have a D- on those 5 additions is wrong.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Btw I think he will be cheaper but Id rather take a gamble on Dom Smiths bat vls Gallo. Gallo does play decent defense and will hit 30+ bombs and get on base but the sub .200 BA is such a turnoff for me. Ideally it is Conforto.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Lol Gallo signed with Minn. Good