109 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

I just can't understand how you factor in loyalty so much, but it doesn't matter at all that Kobe demanded a trade, was very serious about it, and only didn't get dealt because the Lakers demanded so much in return for him that the team he would have went to would have been devoid of much talent. That's not showing loyalty. Sure, I bet he's very happy with the way it turned out, but that's irrelevant to this imo. 

 

I don't have much of an issue with Kobe demanding the trade, but someone who has such a problem with stars wanting out because their teams aren't that good should, especially considering Kobe was in the ultimate destination for attracting players and he was the main reason why they no longer had Shaq and Phil.

[bnickle]

Kobe probably would admit he made a mistake and let his ego and frustration get the best of him at that time. Bottom line is Kobe never walked away from the Lakers in FA when he had the chance on more than one occasion. Not only that, but I mean he could have held out and refused to play if he was that dead set on leaving LA.

[mweb08]

So you are giving credit to Kobe for not holding out? 

 

Kobe also wasn't a free agent during any down times with the Lakers so it's not like he had a good reason to leave the most desirable NBA team and it's not exactly loyal to accept more money than anyone else can pay.

 

And that is way too simple of a bottom line. If you want to make a big deal out of loyalty, you simply have to consider his trade demand unless you want to be inconsistent. I'm not saying it should be on the same level of LeBron leaving Cleveland, but to act like Kobe has been totally loyal is just flat out wrong.

 

The majority of these guys that you point to as the anti-LeBron in this regard were not nearly as loyal as you like to think, they just didn't have as many or any opportunities to leave, their teams surrounded them with much better talent so there wasn't much of a reason to want to leave, and in more recent years, were able to be paid more by their current team.

[bnickle]

So you are giving credit to Kobe for not holding out? 

 

Kobe also wasn't a free agent during any down times with the Lakers so it's not like he had a good reason to leave the most desirable NBA team and it's not exactly loyal to accept more money than anyone else can pay.

 

And that is way too simple of a bottom line. If you want to make a big deal out of loyalty, you simply have to consider his trade demand unless you want to be inconsistent. I'm not saying it should be on the same level of LeBron leaving Cleveland, but to act like Kobe has been totally loyal is just flat out wrong.

 

The majority of these guys that you point to as the anti-LeBron in this regard were not nearly as loyal as you like to think, they just didn't have as many or any opportunities to leave, their teams surrounded them with much better talent so there wasn't much of a reason to want to leave, and in more recent years, were able to be paid more by their current team.

Loyalty is just part of it. Yeah, a lot of players may have considered moving on from their franchises at times. Cal was supposed to be pissed of after his dad was fired in '88 and was willing to move on. Not that he demanded a trade or anything but obviously pretty much everyone gets upset with the status qou at times. Bottom line is for whatever reason, whether its pure luck, whether it's a very strong loyalty factor, superstars that stay in one city for all or most of their career are viewed differently than those who don't.

[mweb08]

That has little bearing on how people should view them when they use their brains. Kobe staying in LA his whole career is not something to celebrate that much considering his trade demand. It's nice when arguing who is the best Laker ever and it makes him more beloved by the Lakers fanbase, but when judging him vs LeBron and others in the all-time list, it shouldn't result in extra credit imo.

[SportsGuy]

LeBron could play for 5 different teams and he will still go down as one of the 5 greatest ever.

No one cares.

[bnickle]

LeBron could play for 5 different teams and he will still go down as one of the 5 greatest ever.

No one cares.

No, you don't care.

[mweb08]

LeBron could play for 5 different teams and he will still go down as one of the 5 greatest ever.

No one cares.

 

Well obviously some do. And I agree with Braden that it's preferable to stay with one team. Where I disagree is how much value he places on it and that he apparently assumes that no one else would have also switched teams just because they didn't in the past in very different situations, and that is incredibly naive to me.

[SportsGuy]

No, you don't care.

It's meaningless...sure, it would be good if he stayed in one spot but in today's age of free agency, it's rare anyway.

He was right to leave Cle.....he gave them plenty of time to give him a real team and they failed.

He will be right to leave Miami if he chooses to.

And when he keeps winning rings and piling up the stats, that's what people will care about.

[mweb08]

It's meaningless...sure, it would be good if he stayed in one spot but in today's age of free agency, it's rare anyway.

He was right to leave Cle.....he gave them plenty of time to give him a real team and they failed.

He will be right to leave Miami if he chooses to.

And when he keeps winning rings and piling up the stats, that's what people will care about.

 

No way, MJ would have stayed with a crappy Bulls team throughout his entire prime and people would value him just as highly because he did the right thing!