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James Harden Traded to Houston


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#81 mweb08

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 04:00 PM

Not sure where the more recent conversations about this trade are, but Simmons and Winhorst did a great job talking about this on the BS Report recently: http://www.grantland.com/podcasts

 

While once again hammering the trade, here's some points that were brought up:

 

- Lamb really disappointed the Thunder once he started practicing with them.

 

- Other GM's didn't get the move for the Thunder

 

- This was Presti's decision, not the owner telling him he had to deal Harden to save money.

 

- Couldn't they have gotten a better deal for Harden right now? Harden to CLE for the #1, 19, and 31 picks plus Waiters.

 

- Obviously they would have had a better chance at winning it all this year without the deal and they would have kept their options open for beyond. It's not like the Rockets offer was so good that they had to do it then. 



#82 PD24

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:16 PM

Not sure where the more recent conversations about this trade are, but Simmons and Winhorst did a great job talking about this on the BS Report recently: http://www.grantland.com/podcasts

 

While once again hammering the trade, here's some points that were brought up:

 

- Lamb really disappointed the Thunder once he started practicing with them.

 

- Other GM's didn't get the move for the Thunder

 

- This was Presti's decision, not the owner telling him he had to deal Harden to save money.

 

- Couldn't they have gotten a better deal for Harden right now? Harden to CLE for the #1, 19, and 31 picks plus Waiters.

 

- Obviously they would have had a better chance at winning it all this year without the deal and they would have kept their options open for beyond. It's not like the Rockets offer was so good that they had to do it then. 

 

I agree with the general point here, but there's no way they could have gotten Cle's #1. Remember, Harden still wouldn't have been starting for OKC. 


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#83 mweb08

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:25 PM

I agree with the general point here, but there's no way they could have gotten Cle's #1. Remember, Harden still wouldn't have been starting for OKC. 

 

CLE really wants a star and the #1 pick doesn't have the value it normally does as CLE would like to deal it so I think they could have gotten it.



#84 PD24

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:32 PM

CLE really wants a star and the #1 pick doesn't have the value it normally does as CLE would like to deal it so I think they could have gotten it.

 

But would Harden really have much more value now than he did last year if he would have continued to come off the bench and not play elite minutes? 


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#85 mweb08

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:36 PM

But would Harden really have much more value now than he did last year if he would have continued to come off the bench and not play elite minutes? 

 

He had a lot of value last year to teams that wanted a star like Houston and now Cleveland. 



#86 PD24

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

He had a lot of value last year to teams that wanted a star like Houston and now Cleveland. 

 

The value they got from Houston is significantly less than the trade you laid out earlier in this thread. 


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#87 mweb08

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:41 PM

The value they got from Houston is significantly less than the trade you laid out earlier in this thread. 

 

Yeah, and now CLE really wants to trade the #1 and land a star so it's very plausible that they would have dealt the #1 plus Waiters for Harden. You can debate the other picks if you like.



#88 PD24

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:37 PM

Yeah, and now CLE really wants to trade the #1 and land a star so it's very plausible that they would have dealt the #1 plus Waiters for Harden. You can debate the other picks if you like.

 

Fair enough if you think that. IMO that would be an awful deal for Cleveland, but it depends what they think Noel will become. Add Noel to Waiters, Zeller, Irving, and Thompson, and they are really starting to develop a very good team with cap space heading into the next 2 offseasons.

 

Think Lebron will consider going back, or do you think Miami is too good for him to leave? 


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#89 mweb08

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:44 PM

I'm not much of a Noel fan so I don't think that would be bad for Cleveland; although, a big would make more sense for them.

 

The same podcast had some really good stuff about the future of the Heat and the possibility of LeBron going to Cleveland. Did you listen to it?



#90 SportsGuy

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:47 PM

I think Noel is being overrated.

#91 PD24

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:14 PM

I'm not much of a Noel fan so I don't think that would be bad for Cleveland; although, a big would make more sense for them.

 

The same podcast had some really good stuff about the future of the Heat and the possibility of LeBron going to Cleveland. Did you listen to it?

 

Nope, I didn't. I will when I get a chance. I love me some Bill Simmons.

 

My prediction is that they'll keep that Heat team together for a long time, but Lebron may go back to Cleveland at the very end of his career to mend some fences. 


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#92 mweb08

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:20 PM

Nope, I didn't. I will when I get a chance. I love me some Bill Simmons.

 

My prediction is that they'll keep that Heat team together for a long time, but Lebron may go back to Cleveland at the very end of his career to mend some fences. 

 

Your opinion here may change after listening to the podcast. It's going to be tough for them to do it financially and that's before even considering Wade's decline.



#93 bnickle

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:29 PM

Well Weber and Seth will jump on me for this again I'm sure. I say, the more Lebron moves around the more it hurts his legacy. Its already taken one hit. What now your gonna run away from Miami as Wade is declining to the next stop. Whether its LA or wherever. You can't be a hired gun in every single city in America.



#94 PD24

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:32 PM

Well Weber and Seth will jump on me for this again I'm sure. I say, the more Lebron moves around the more it hurts his legacy. Its already taken one hit. What now your gonna run away from Miami as Wade is declining to the next stop. Whether its LA or wherever. You can't be a hired gun in every single city in America.


Totally agree with this. I think if he goes to Cle it takes much less of a hit because he still will have only played for 2 teams, but if he runs to LA then I agree his legacy will never be the same.
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#95 mweb08

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:37 PM

Well Weber and Seth will jump on me for this again I'm sure. I say, the more Lebron moves around the more it hurts his legacy. Its already taken one hit. What now your gonna run away from Miami as Wade is declining to the next stop. Whether its LA or wherever. You can't be a hired gun in every single city in America.

 

It likely will take a hit with some, but I think the impact of these things lessens over time. 

 

And as I said before, I think # of titles is the most important thing so 2-3 titles with Miami is better for his legacy than 0 with the Cavs and that lets say 2 future titles with whichever team is better than not winning any with the Heat post 2014.



#96 mweb08

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:38 PM

And it's hilarious that Kobe demanding to be traded isn't considered by some when talking about this.



#97 SportsGuy

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:43 AM

Well Weber and Seth will jump on me for this again I'm sure. I say, the more Lebron moves around the more it hurts his legacy. Its already taken one hit. What now your gonna run away from Miami as Wade is declining to the next stop. Whether its LA or wherever. You can't be a hired gun in every single city in America.


So, you think Shaq's legacy has been effected?

#98 bnickle

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:04 PM

So, you think Shaq's legacy has been effected?

To some degree , yes.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, Lebron is going down as one of the best ever but he could have been in the same breath as Jordan. Now, some might argue my next point but in general Shaq for as great as he was isn't in the same esteem as Kareem or Russell.



#99 mweb08

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:26 PM

Branden, do you ignore Kobe's trade demand when considering this?



#100 bnickle

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:56 PM

Branden, do you ignore Kobe's trade demand when considering this?

Bottom line is he didn;t leave. Whether he backed off his demands or for whatever reason the Lakers just decided not to pull the trigger it didn't happen. I'm sure Kobe is very very happy in retrospect that he didn;t leave LA in the heat of the moement. Regarldess, of winning 2 more titles. He now reaps the rewards of being arguably Mr Laker. I knwo thats very debatable, but he;s in the conversation. He's absolutely beloved in LA. Clearly the biggest LA sports star.






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